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Topic: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Okay guys, I'm going to try to aggregate the lessons of myself and others here.

If you haven't yet, take a look at the thread that started it all.. There is a wealth of information in that thread, but I am going to attempt to summarize most of it here in place of that 58 page thread.

Basic Concepts
The Filastruder is very comparable to a single screw industrial extruder. One of the main differences is the screw type - industrial extruders have a tapered center section to increase shear and compression. The Filastruder has a constant crossectional area, primarily due to cost. That means that the Filastruder runs at a significantly lower pressure (~150psi/10bar). Otherwise, they are similar in operation.

Raw Material
What goes in, comes out. This includes dust, dirt, and other debris. You will want to keep things clean. With a 0.6mm nozzle and no on-printer filament cleaning, I have gone through over 15kg of Filastruder filament without a clog. With a 0.35mm nozzle and no on-printer filament cleaning, I experienced a clog every 2kg or so. This may have been from dust settling on the filament as it was fed in, though. With the addition of a melt filter (should be in the store by September 1st), you should not experience any contamination in your filament. It is still important to be mindful of debris, so you do not have to clean the melt filter too often. More on that later.

The Filastruder will feed both pellet and powdered resins. Powdered resins may have a tendency to stick/clump in the hopper and not feed well if not agitated. Pellets feed great as long as the maximum pellet dimension is less than 6mm in length.

Polymer Selection
The Filastruder will process just about anything you put in it that meets the above (pellet size, mostly). Two aspects of the polymer significantly affect output rate:

1.) MFI/MFR (melt flow index/melt flow rate) This is a measurement of how easily a polymer flows through an orifice. If you take the Melt Flow Rate as tested at 230°C/3.8 kgf (ASTM D1238) and multiply by the following multipliers, you will get an estimated output rate in inches per minute with 1.75mm filament size:

  • v.1.0, original motor multiplier 0.9

  • v.1.1+, original motor multiplier 0.7

  • Post kickstarter motor: 1.8

The 230C/3.8kgf MFI of MG94 is 11.7. So if you have a v1.0 with original motor, you'd expect around 10.5in/min. If you upgraded the motor, you'd expect 19in/min. This would be with an appropriate nozzle temp (185C in our case), not the ASTM D1238 test condition temperature.

2.) The other is the coefficient of friction between the polymer and the heated barrel. You want this to be high, and you want the COF between the polymer and screw root to be low. Think of it as rotating a bolt while holding the nut. The more friction between the nut and the bolt, the greater the torque required (increased motor load). If there was no friction between your fingers and the nut, the nut would not advance on the motor. Unfortunately this isn't really a specification on a datasheet. It does mean the barrel needs to have some internal roughness, otherwise the polymer to barrel COF will drop and melt pressure will drop with it, resulting in reduced output. Warning: math ahead!

http://i.imgur.com/ORb3ZxW.gif

The relevant variables here are P(z) (pressure profile), f_b (barrel to polymer dynamic COF) and f_s (screw to polymer dynamic COF). As you can see, increasing f_b increases pressure, decreasing f_s increases pressure. [1] In fact, some screws are fluoropolymer (PTFE or similar) coated. Too bad that's way out of our little Filastruder's price range.


ABS
The recommended ABS resin to use is Sabic's MG94. It is what is included with your Filastruder, and it is available through Open Source Printing. I have processed half a dozen varieties of ABS, and they all work well with little hassle. Basically, they are the easy button. MG94 has the highest MFI of any ABS resin I've found so far, which is why I selected it as the official resin to include with the Filastruder. Expect tolerances of +/-0.05mm on 1.75mm filament for any ABS you throw at it.

PLA
PLA is a tougher nut to crack, owing it its affinity for moisture and its melting properties. In short, it must be very dry to work well in ANY extruder, not just the Filastruder. With proper drying, tolerances can approach those experienced with ABS. It also helps to have a winder, like IanJohnson's Filawinder. When switching from ABS to PLA, it is important to either run to empty and then remove the nozzle and pull out any remaining ABS, or to run PLA at ABS temperatures for a few hours to purge all remaining ABS.

Nylon
To my knowledge, the only nylon that has been run through a Filastruder is this. It is the same nylon Shapeways uses in their strong and flexible processes. If you can keep it feeding into the hopper well, the Filastruder will pressurize and extrude it just fine. Sometimes the powder clumps in the hopper if it isn't dry enough, but you can poke it with a piece of filament periodically to keep it flowing. Tolerances are on par with ABS (+/[email protected])

LDPE
One of our users, R.J.A.Allen, has extruded LDPE: http://www.soliforum.com/post/28185/#p28185

TPE
I have extruded Dynaflex G2755 successfully using the Filastruder. I actually got very fast output rates, about double what I see with ABS. It is not possible to accurately measure the diameter with calipers because the filament is so flexible - I could easily tie it in a knot and untie it. However, the tolerances looked about like I see with ABS, visually. Thermoplastic elastomer is like string. Unfortunately I have no idea how you would print with it, since it is so flexible.

Effects of Extrusion Temperature
Increasing temperature yields higher output rate, smaller diameter. Eventually, there is a point that a surface roughness on the polymer can be felt. My hypothesis is that this is due to internal stresses and unstable flow. It may also be due to moisture content. If the filament is not smooth, reduce nozzle temperature. Increasing temperature also reduces drag on the motor, letting it work less (even though output rate is increased). Another side effect of increasing temperature is the possibility of tangles at the nozzle (we call this ramen). With the filament guide set properly and nothing for the filament to hit on its way down, ramen should not be an issue at any temperature.

Polymer Changeover
Changing from a polymer with a lower melt temperature to one with a higher melt temperature is easy - just run until the hopper is empty, load the new material, and wait for the old material to be flushed out. Going the other direction is not so easy. You will need to remove the nozzle to clean out all remnants of the first polymer. Be sure to wear gloves while doing this, as the hotend will still be hot!


Masterbatch
Masterbatch is a solid or liquid (we use solid) additive to a resin to add a particular property. In our case, it is to add color. Hence, colorant and masterbatch are used interchangably. Here's some natural ABS with blue colorant [2]:
http://i.imgur.com/YxkxlYy.jpg?1

When, which run through the Filastruder, produces this [2]:

http://i.imgur.com/SXqCuUF.jpg?1

It really is that simple. For most colorants, you want a ratio between 32:1 and 48:1. Simply measure this just like you would if baking a cake - grab a tablespoon and measuring cup, and get to work. There are 48 tablespoons in a cup, so one tablespoon of colorant per cup of natural resin will get you in the ballpark. For more information, check out this thread:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2123/col … sterbatch/

Recycling

There's a few hurdles in recycling printed plastic. They are as follows:

  • Shredding/cutting the prints into pellets. The Filastruder needs chunks of plastic that are no larger than 5mm on any side.

  • Contaminants. Any dirt or dust you get on your print, ends up in your filament. Same for whatever method you use to cut/shred your prints - any metal debris you get in the shredded plastic ends up in filament.

  • Heat history. The more you heat cycle a polymer, the weaker it gets as each heat cycle breaks the polymer chains. You will want to mix in virgin material to maintain strength, though this is not a huge issue typically [3]

As far as contaminants, this should be a non-issue if you wash and dry the plastic, and use the melt filter we provide on the site. The other two issues are left up to the user. There are some hobbyist shredders beginning to be made, but we have no experience with them.

Furthermore, I can only recommend recycling plastic that you are 100% sure you know the properties of. Some plastics can offgas toxic fumes near their melt temperature - PVC, for example.
Do not attempt to extrude plastics you are not familiar with.
Do not attempt to extrude plastics you are not familiar with.
Do not attempt to extrude plastics you are not familiar with.

Die design/melt filtering
The output side of an industrial extruder looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/wBEJ0HH.png

The breaker plate looks like this:

http://www.psi-polymersystems.com/images/Breaker_Plate_Asso.jpg

The screen pack is on one side of that, and the die is on the other side.

I've gone through 5 revisions of a combined screen pack/breaker plate/extrusion die, and have come up with the following:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1786359/meltfilter3.png

It uses a 250 micron wire mesh filter, and has 75sqmm of effective filtration area. It is CNC machined out of brass - this in and of itself is an upgrade from the standard nozzles which are made on a drill press. I have tested this final revision for over 100 hours of extrusion, with no measurable decline in output rate. Because the local velocity of the polymer at the screen pack is so low, output rate is not diminished until the filter is nearly full of contaminants.

This melt filter is completely reverse compatible with all versions of the Filastruder - simply heat up the Filastruder to operating temperatures, unplug it, remove the thermocouple, loosen the nozzle 1 turn each minute while the Filastruder cools, install the new nozzle, reinstall the thermocouple, and heat the Filastruder back up. You may need to tighten the nozzle another half turn after heating. Of course, wear gloves and safety glasses during this!

References:
[1] Polymer Extrusion By Chris Rauwendaal
[2] Images provided by DePartedPrinter
[3] http://www.journalamme.org/papers_vol37_2/37221.pdf

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Very nice thread.
so if we are looking for new pallets, we have to get a flow rate around 11.7g/10min.  what are the other property we should be looking for?
I am asking about this becaue i am fortunate enough to visit a factory (own by distance family) that does molding and has different type of pallets. so i might "steal" some pellets from them lol. that's why i want to make sure i grab workable pellets.

Solidoodle2 with Ceramic tile heated bed http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2544/my- … eated-bed/
"1kg should last for an while" is a lie!

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Well, you don't HAVE to find some with a MFI that high - it just dictates extrusion speed.

Keep in mind there are different ways of measuring MFI - different temperatures and forces. Be sure to compare apples to apples. You don't really need to worry about other parameters, in my experience.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

I would be interested in seeing a comparison between different MFI ABS pellets as printed.  How much difference is there between given MFIs when it comes to extrusion multipliers, temperatures, prints speeds, and oozing.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

but Ian, it might be trade secret :-(

@Elmoret, thank you for your input, so what's a lower bound that i should stay from.. or an average MFI?

Solidoodle2 with Ceramic tile heated bed http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2544/my- … eated-bed/
"1kg should last for an while" is a lie!

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

RavensCrest wrote:

@Elmoret, thank you for your input, so what's a lower bound that i should stay from.. or an average MFI?

Well like I said, the 230C/3.8kgf MFI of MG94 is 11.7. With the upgraded motor and latest auger, you can use a multiplier of 0.7*1.8 to get inches/minute. So, if you wanted to use a polymer with a 230C/3.8kgf MFI of 5, then you'd be looking at 6.3 inches per minute of output. If that's fast enough for you, awesome. smile

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Thanks Tim for this thread, all of this information is available somewhere in separate threads and forums but it is great to have it consolidated in one thread.

Now re:
"The Filastruder is very comparable to a single screw industrial extruder. One of the main differences is the screw type - industrial extruders have a tapered center section to increase shear and compression. "

How much harder would it be to put a tapered center section versus the cuts you are having done making that asterisk on the back face?

I just received my filtered nozzles today amazing how much debris is in the bore holes definitely need to find a 1.75mm and 3mm bottle brush.

Ralph

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Ralphxyz wrote:

Thanks Tim for this thread, all of this information is available somewhere in separate threads and forums but it is great to have it consolidated in one thread.

Happy to do it. I want documentation to be great, I just have limited time right now so I do it where I can.

Ralphxyz wrote:

Now re:
"The Filastruder is very comparable to a single screw industrial extruder. One of the main differences is the screw type - industrial extruders have a tapered center section to increase shear and compression. "

How much harder would it be to put a tapered center section versus the cuts you are having done making that asterisk on the back face?

My comments were about the screw, not the nozzle.

It is much more expensive to have a tapered extrusion screw made. Like one or two orders of magnitude more expensive.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Oh so a blunt end screw would not work with a tapered nozzle?

Seems like there is a gap between the screw and the back of the nozzle anyhow.

Of course I still do not have my Filastruder assemble because of the lack of a 3D printer to print the hopper
so I am just speculating.

Ralph

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Now I'm really confused. Let me back up.

The feedscrew used in the Filastruder looks like this:

http://www.holesawsunlimited.com/images/D/1x18StandardShipAuger02813-03.jpg

A real extruder screw looks something like this:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6921191-0-large.jpg

Notice the taper (transition area) and increased root/body diameter? Real extruders have that. Hobbyist extruders don't, because the price isn't realistic and from a performance standpoint it isn't as necessary in the hobbyist-level for a few different reasons (mainly throughput related).

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the nozzle. It is of course possible to machine a tapered transition, but that would add a more expensive machining feature to the nozzle. I plan to experiment with it in the coming weeks to see if it is worth the increased cost, but with this melt filter release I aimed for something that worked and was reasonably priced, instead of aiming for maximum performance with no regard for machining cost.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Interesting shape to the extruder screw. Is the idea that the area for plastic around the screw is wider where the pellets are dropped in, then compresses towards the nozzle? If so, I'd think that would generate a lot of pressure, causing the pellets to break down, and thus heat, which would melt them, both of which would speed up production. Not that speed is our primary goal, of course, but I can see why they'd engineer it that way for commercial production - those machines are pretty expensive, so increasing output is worth a lot of money.

This makes me wonder - is there anything that we can do to help the plastic mix well? All of the photos of home extruded plastic appear to have some variation in the color intensity, which isn't surprising - it's pretty hard to mix 1-3% colerant pellets evenly into the base material. One person I spoke with recently advocated extruding the material twice, so it goes through twice and evens the color out, which he thought made the process more efficient because you don't waste plastic run before the colors mix. It sounds like a lot of work though, since you'd have to chop up the filament. And isn't running plastic through multiple times bad for the plastic?

How do the industrial extruders do it? Do they run the plastic through multiple stages of mixing and extrusion? That sounds expensive...

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

To get color mixed thoroughly and other things commercial extruders will run it through several times.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

laird wrote:

Interesting shape to the extruder screw. Is the idea that the area for plastic around the screw is wider where the pellets are dropped in, then compresses towards the nozzle? If so, I'd think that would generate a lot of pressure, causing the pellets to break down, and thus heat, which would melt them, both of which would speed up production. Not that speed is our primary goal, of course, but I can see why they'd engineer it that way for commercial production - those machines are pretty expensive, so increasing output is worth a lot of money.

Yup. On an industrial extruder, the majority of heat comes from shear in the material. On a Filastruder, most of of it comes from the heaterband.

laird wrote:

This makes me wonder - is there anything that we can do to help the plastic mix well? All of the photos of home extruded plastic appear to have some variation in the color intensity, which isn't surprising - it's pretty hard to mix 1-3% colerant pellets evenly into the base material.

Use liquid colorant or grind the solid colorant particles into smaller pieces.

laird wrote:

One person I spoke with recently advocated extruding the material twice, so it goes through twice and evens the color out, which he thought made the process more efficient because you don't waste plastic run before the colors mix. It sounds like a lot of work though, since you'd have to chop up the filament. And isn't running plastic through multiple times bad for the plastic?

How do the industrial extruders do it? Do they run the plastic through multiple stages of mixing and extrusion? That sounds expensive...

The industrial extruders have a longer melt and some geometric features to aid in mixing, but conversely hae a larger crossectional area working against them. As ronsii said, they extrude, chop up, and reextrude. It doesn't adversely affect most plastics as long as peak temperatures are kept down.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

"I'm not sure what you're getting at with the nozzle. It is of course possible to machine a tapered transition, but that would add a more expensive machining feature to the nozzle. "

Well you are currently paying for the facing and the asterik groove machining on the back face
I doubt a taper would add much.

I have seem where others have customized the nozzle with tapers to help avoid clogging.

Now as far as the extruder screws I can see where the taper at the  end would increase the pressure and shear. Well I guess that moves my getting a lath or a forth dimension for my RPM up on the list.

Ralph

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

A taper means it can't be done on a manual mill anymore, if it is a true curved taper. I have some ideas in mind, for the future but this works well for now.

Where have you seen customization of the nozzle? There should be no clogging - you should not be introducing debris into the material.

As for making your own screw, I doubt very much it'd be worth the hassle. On top of that, I doubt the RPM can mill tool steel...if it ever ships. tongue

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Thanks for this post. It's the first I could find that detailed switching nozzles.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Hi,I have two Questions,
Q1:What is the ideal extrusion temperatures for the following polymers:
1:ABS
2:PLA
3:PCL

Q2:In the filastruder what should be the distance between the tip of the auger bit and the die?

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Q1: It depends, it depends, and it depends.

Q2: The optimal distance is the distance that occurs when assembling it according to the instructions. It is not something you should be concerned with if you have assembled it per the instructions.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

They come with instructions, sweet! wink

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Thanks to all for your contributions

20 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-11 11:32:55)

Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

elmoret wrote:

The feedscrew used in the Filastruder looks like this:

http://www.holesawsunlimited.com/images/D/1x18StandardShipAuger02813-03.jpg

A real extruder screw looks something like this:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6921191-0-large.jpg

I just thought of something related to glow-in-the-dark filaments.
Since those are just PLA mixed with glow powder, which are tiny crystal particles (of mainly strontium aluminate or zinc sulfate) that lose their phosphorescence if the crystal structure is destroyed, for example from grinding, does that mean the Filastruder with its feedscrew design will likely produce better glowing filaments than commercial ones made with a commercial extruder screw like in the second image, because the latter will grind some of the glow powder?

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

G'day all. I am wondering if the plastic used in model kits can be recycled into filament with the filastruder? The model kits I am talking about are the ones made by kotobukiya. the only info i can read on the plastic is PS, ABS & PE. I would rather recycle the empty spines then put them in landfill. I am also buying a magazine called 3D create and print and with each issue I get a few parts for a Vector 3 3d printer. If I can recycle the plastics I mentioned above then I will be getting a filastruder. Thanks in advance for all your help.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

ABS is one of the mere common plastics used for 3d filament and the filastruder will handle it fine you will likely  have to grind or chop it first.
The PE may work as some folks use HIPS High Impact Polyethylene for printing.
Polystyrene imho useless. for 3d printing .   
Hopefully our resident expert on the filastruder will chime in and help you.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Sorry if this has been asked before, Why is polystyrene plastic useless for 3d printing?

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

Tin Falcon wrote:

ABS is one of the mere common plastics used for 3d filament and the filastruder will handle it fine you will likely  have to grind or chop it first.
The PE may work as some folks use HIPS High Impact Polyethylene for printing.
Polystyrene imho useless. for 3d printing .   
Hopefully our resident expert on the filastruder will chime in and help you.
Tin


HIPS stands for high impact polystyrene, not polyethylene.

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Re: Polymer Extrusion - A Brief Tutorial.

angel80 wrote:

Sorry if this has been asked before, Why is polystyrene plastic useless for 3d printing?

Thermal expansion coefficient.