1 (edited by cmetzel 2012-10-09 22:15:37)

Topic: Selling prints - how much?

I don't know if any of you have plans to sell any prints, but I'm interested in how you'd structure your costing.  If you figure an hourly rate plus the cost of ABS, electricity, & wear & tear, what would you charge for an item like the attached printed in solid fill.  They are 1.25"L X 1.00"W X 1.25"H, and I can comfortably fit 12 on the build platform to print at the same time.  0.3 resolution is fine for this application, and bottom warping is okay because they will be machined to specific height before use. 

What would you charge for one, would there be a volume discount even if machine hours would be the same for 12 individual or 12 at once?  Printing one took a little more than an hour with my settings.  I'm running skeinforge on a group of 12 so I can get an estimate of time on 12 but I would imagine it being nearly 12 hours with solid fill, and I have a concern about overheating and damage to the machine running that long. 

Thoughts?

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Ooo... a bit steep on the low end.  IMHO $15 for the one part is almost ludicrous.  At that size you're looking at maybe $5 a piece, but even I'd have a hard time justifying that unless there's something there that's not visible in the STL... something added after print.

My planned costing for the items I'm going to create are about $5-7 a piece.  They're not as solid but they are bigger (about 4-5"x3-5"x.5" and slic3r estimates about 2.683m filament.  Even at a modest 100m per 1kg roll, I can estimate that I can produce about 37 pieces.  At US$43 per roll that's about US$1.16 a piece for the filament.  Tack on electricity costs and labor, $5-7 is not too bad.  I may be underselling, but it seems a fair price.  Once you have the gCode that part of the equation is done and you just keep replicating the object(s).

Just My Opinion... BTW, I took the lowest value.
cckens

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

If it is something you haven't printed before, there might be some false starts in getting the settings right, and other pre-prossessing.  Especially if you are trying to do something high quality, high resolution.  I've come to check on a print after several hours and found a giant orbiting hairball, so if it isn't a tried and true part that you are printing in quantity, you might need to factor in some failures.  Also if you have to use supports, that is more work at the end.

4 (edited by jooshs 2012-10-09 23:42:10)

Re: Selling prints - how much?

Just as a reference, I checked in shapeways and it is $31 and a two week wait for regular plastic there. I certainly think 15-25 is more than reasonable. Usually, you would think that the smaller individual couldn't compete with industry standards, but not with 3d printing. 12 hours is risky to run at once. Not so much because of problems with overheating, but if anything goes wrong at any point all 12 blocks are ruined.  You don't want to do them all individually, maybe just break it up a little more.  I personally would spend more to buy it from an individual because I think it's cool, but I guess most people wouldn't agree, so don't charge more than shapeways.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

It depends on the part, and would take some testing, but I saw a suggestion once of using the nozzle to push a part off the platform.   If it is small, and not too sticky, you might be able to write an end gcode that will make the nozzle sweep it off, and then have another build gcode pasted in after that one.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Just for reference, I just bought 4 of these from a supplier with a production FDM machine and paid 50 dollars each.  $25 in honeycomb.  He has to factor in paying an operator, burden on the building and machine etc.  I know it only costs me $1 to print if my time is free, but I guess where we disagree is how much is your time worth?  If you spend an hour of your free time, how much do you want in compensation?  Anything less than $25 or $30 I'm not interested.  That said whomever wants to print these out for $5 each I'll buy them up and sell them at a huge markup.  I could get behind that.  Haha

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

IanJohnson wrote:

It depends on the part, and would take some testing, but I saw a suggestion once of using the nozzle to push a part off the platform.   If it is small, and not too sticky, you might be able to write an end gcode that will make the nozzle sweep it off, and then have another build gcode pasted in after that one.

No chance I would ever try that!

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Ill be going down the same path eventually.

2 things ill base my charges on will be cost of plastic & my time.
Everything else ill absorb.

Easier for me as I already run a small business, so power, software etc are already covered.
Can be quite tricky to price as 3D printing is a very new process to alot of our customers but having said that, once they realise the process theyre almost happy to part with anything just to be involved with it :-)

Pronterface tells you how many mm of filament a print will use. Work out how many meters a 1kg spool is and from there you can work out how much for each piece based on how many mm's of filament it uses & how much you pay for your spools. Ive attached a chart that shows roughly kg>mm conversions for different size spools.

Starting to think the solidoodle may not be up to some of the projects ill throw at it, but its a start.
Possibly use the Solidoodle as my "learn from my mistakes" machine and eventually invest in something with more "out of the box" capabilities and higher res prints. The new replicator has caught my attention!

Please share any ideas you come up with as far as "selling prints" im very interested.

Cheers

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

macmub wrote:

2 things ill base my charges on will be cost of plastic & my time.
Everything else ill absorb.

Pronterface tells you how many mm of filament a print will use. Work out how many meters a 1kg spool is and from there you can work out how much for each piece based on how many mm's of filament it uses & how much you pay for your spools. Ive attached a chart that shows roughly kg>mm conversions for different size spools.

I've seen that chart, but I think you'll find that most of the prints you'll do especially if they are honeycomb have next to nothing value of plastic.  I'm basing mine almost exclusively on what I value my time at, and the comparison to the cost and quality of the next best thing which are the production level machines.  I think that if I printed at .1 and tweaked my machine to the likes of Ian or lawsy and some others here, I could get a quality rivaling what I just bought.  But this particular print does not require that level of accuracy for the use.  I was going along the lines of it cost me $50 to buy it out of plastic, probably less than that to machine it using our existing process out of aluminum.  If I figure 1/2 the cost of the professional I'm at $25 per part, but I'm not sure I want to price my time at $25 an hour giving up my nights away from my family and kids.  The only saving grace is that I don't really have to sit at the machine the whole time.  Just to start and finish, so my actual time invested is probably only 15 minutes for the hour long print, and 5 minutes for every subsequent print.  $25 each doesn't sound so bad anymore, but again I'm setting a precedent.  I like to be able to point to pronterface and say run time of 1 hour and I'll take $40 an hour for my time and throw in the plastic or something like that. 

At the end of the day it's what can I get away with charging, not what can I make it for.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

One thing you have to consider is dimensional accuracy.  If you print that STL as-is on the Solidoodle, the holes will probably be too small.  You can calibrate your XY steps to get your prints as accurate as possible, but interior holes are a problem that open source slicers haven't quite solved.  Once you have done a lot of testing, and figured out the tolerances between what is designed and what is printed, you can give your customers some design guidelines so that the results are what they expect.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

IanJohnson wrote:

One thing you have to consider is dimensional accuracy.  If you print that STL as-is on the Solidoodle, the holes will probably be too small.  You can calibrate your XY steps to get your prints as accurate as possible, but interior holes are a problem that open source slicers haven't quite solved.  Once you have done a lot of testing, and figured out the tolerances between what is designed and what is printed, you can give your customers some design guidelines so that the results are what they expect.

For this particular company, I would be the designer as well as the printer.  So once I do a couple tests I can account for the interior holes in my designs going forward. 

I do need to sit down one day and calibrate everything, XY steps, extrude feed amount, etc.  Basically run through your website and do all the updates.  I'm still printing more or less out of the box because until now it hasn't mattered for my prototypes.  I don't need them to be closer than what SD is out of the box.  I've never even leveled the bed.  I find that when I'm sitting in front of it I want to be printing instead of tinkering.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

I think that if you want to be able to sell parts, and want to be competitive about it, you;ve got to look at it in the view of how much do you want to get paid, (everyone wants as much as they can obviously).
but how much should you be getting paid, - I believe that there are several roles involved in the design and manufacture of parts.
working as a design engineer might be a lucrative role, but if the work you're doing is assembly line machine supervision, then you probably can't expect as much.

if you try to value your time too little, then what's the point.
value your time too much and you'll never be competitive enough to actually shift anything


I'm planning on selling items, and I believe that the following strategy is both fair and competitive.
(as a note, I'm in the UK, and I've based my wages roughly on what I believe people expect to be paid -loosly based on findings from jobsites, I also have a day job that I effectivly do not plan to give up!)


I want the plastic paid for at cost, (including delivery). etc.
I want my electricity paid for.

I want my design time paid for at a reasonable rate.
my reasonable rate for designing the part, (creating the STL etc) is going to be in the order of £15 - £20 an hour. (up to $30 an hour)

I'm then going to take off my engineer hat, and put on a technicians hat if you like.
my first test runs of the part to make sure that the design in solid I'm going to take a couple of hours, of (not intently) watching the machine and then testing the part afterwards.

I'll want a reasonable technicians rate of say £8 - £12 Per hour (~$15 per hour) you'd be a very well paid technician to be getting £15 an hour.

after the design is complete and been shaken down etc. I'm going to put on my "line worker" hat, and only expect to be paid a minimum wage, which in the UK is about £6/hour ~$9

So...
lets suggest that the part there took 2 hour to design. (£20 x 2)
2 hours to "shake down" (£15 x 2)
and each part takes 2 hour to print, (but you only look in every once in a while, perhaps 1 in 4 minutes, the rest of the time you're watching TV, or designing other parts. (£6 x 2 /4)

and the plastic and electricity costs (Per item is £1)
and you produce 2 items during the shakedown stage.


total cost is
(20 x 2) = 40
(15 x 2) = 30
(6 x2/4) = 3
(1 x 2) = 2
(1 x 1) = 1

total cost for one part = £76 (~$121)

if I'm making 100 parts

(20 x 2) = 40
(15 x 2) = 30
(6 x2/4) x 100 = 300
(1 x 2) = 2
(1 x 100) = 100 = 472 / 100 = £4.72 per part ($7.62)

if I'm making a thousand
40 (design)
30 (shakedown
3000 (line worker)
2 (prototypes)
1000 (materials) = £4072 or £4.07 per part = ~$6.50


the part that you have however, is.
simple, (clearly won't take two hours to design)
doesn't need to be precise -so will need less shakedown time
doesn't take two hours to print, (you say it takes 1 hour)
doesn't use a lot of material, perhaps £0.5 or less possibly including electricity.

so we have
1 hour design (1x20) = 20
1 hour shakedown (1x15) = 15
1 hour print (6 x 1/4) = 1.5 x 100 = 150
1 prototype (1 x 0.5) = 0.5
100 pieces (100 x 0.5) = 50

£235 for a run of 100, or £2.35 each
$376 for a run of 100 or $3.76 each

however, it also seems (since you say that you've bought these before) that you have no design or shakedown time, you've just grabbed a file?

so we're looking at £50 in manufacturing and £150 in labour - you occasionally looking at the machine
£200 or £2 each
$320 or $3.20 each

let's look at the complete costs, the solidoodle is $500.
so stick $5 onto your per part price and you've paid for your time, all materials and the production equipment.





realistically, I think that for myself, I'll be happy to "work" out design files at the rate I currently get paid, and go down from there until I hit the "minimum wage" figure - I wouldn't work for less than that...

the items I'll be making will likely not be mass produced. instead I'm trying to head for a low volume high customisation space.
(I believe that this is the only place where this type of 3d printing will be effective. -especially whilst only having a single machine! -though clearly I may choose to build more machines if I can't keep up with production. -though more likely I'd scale back sales.



In short, your $15 dollar is nearly 5 times what it's actually likely to cost you to make (including paying yourself).
if you try to pay yourself too much then someone else will just come long and take your business.

if you want to make a business, think carefully about the costs. time, skills etc involved - because if you don't someone else will! -then you'll be out of business.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

I really like your thorough breakdown Danny.  I believe the ship on printing parts for people is about to sail.  There are some printers out there now and this will change to so many in the next few years.  I think the value will be in taking a product from beginning to end.  If your designing a part out of plastic and it needs any kind of structural integrity, then the engineering side comes in and that is where you can charge a decent bit.  There is a good bit to understanding the strength of materials and how they will react depending on the conditions they will see.  In this type of 3d printing, there is also the large factor of non uniform strength.  These parts have very little strength in one direction and quite a large amount of strength in another direction.  The big thing is that you need your parts to survive once in peoples hands.  Clearly Solidoodle has a great product at a great price, but it has to be killing them financially to replace so many of these broken parts for people.  The way the printers are being treated in shipping must be a surprise to them, but even the new design has broke already due to orientation of the prints being made for the carriage slides.  So to cut the rambling, you can have a valuable business if you can take someone's idea and make it into something reliable and useful.  This also probably includes some post print processing.  At this point the $25 per piece is reasonable.  As you said, it will only last till someone is willing to work for $10 an hour.  And that will only last till someone has a room of these printing and can work at $3 an hour cause they aren't working. 

I still believe that it is fair to slightly undercut somewhere like shapeways and that you can be competitive that way.  If they don't get it from shapeways, and they don't get it from one of us, where are they going to get it from?

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Macmub,
Thanks for the link... I've been looking for that darn thing... I'll be holding on to that for basic reference...  Looks like I was off by 200m on the filament which is really wild, but still a reference is a reference and I figure I'll be wasting quite a bit of plastic on bad prints and pre-production efforts so it should balance out.

Danny,
I like the breakdown and it really adds credence (in my own mind at least) that I'm doing the right thing.  I plan on making sure that I have good gCode before I start producing.  Once I have the code, then I store it and use it when the part is being ordered to make the parts on demand.  I don't intend for this to be a full manufacturing business, just enough to pay for the parts, plastic, upkeep and any tinkering that I want to do, so I don't impact my family budget.

cmetzel,
You can sell all you want at whatever price you deem fair.  If someone else produces at $5 and you buy and re-sell for 15, that's enterprise!  Still, I have some novel ideas for some product and I've done my research on what the parts would sell for and the price I end up with is fair and would generate sales.  If I go off my product lines to produce an exclusive one-off, the price would be significantly higher as there are design costs for time and materials.  THAT is where my time is worth the most.  If it's just for me and what I want to sell, then I should already have designs made (I do) and only have to set up stable gCode to produce it when my SD comes in.  Once that is there, then I have a piece that is proven (provided I don't crash and burn the SD) and can be reproduced on the fly for the fixed cost.

Just my 2 cents...

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Wow nice active topic, thanks to those that have participated thus far.

Maybe it's worthwhile to give a little of my background and my experience with pricing machine time.  I work in the tool & die industry and have over 15 years experience designing steel components for metal stamping tooling.  Over the last several years my role has shifted to more oversight and management to where I'm exposed to the pricing aspect of the business much more.  I literally wrote the program we use to price our products, and I'm using that model to come up with my thoughts on how much my time is worth. 

Most shops use a rate of $50 - $60 per hour which covers lights, machinery, rent, salaries, etc etc.  This rate unfortunately has stayed the same for the last 15 years but nonetheless that is what the going rate is in my area.  Now once the mill / lathe / CNC machining center are paid for, the company charging that amount becomes much more profitable than they were when they were making payments. 

I have come into 3d printing in a different way than I imagine many of you have.  I was a consumer first, then an admirer, then a hobbyist, and venturing into vendor status.  I have been buying 3d printed parts of simulated metal stampings for use in setting up assembly tooling, gaging, testing measurement programs, fit and function, prototyping, etc.  This part that I attached to this topic was literally purchased over the weekend for $50 each.  Now if I buy in volume I can get that down to $30 each, but that's buying 50 a month or so.  That is not out of line for the market on 3d printed parts off of the objets and dimension printers that are out there, and is from a vendor that we give a lot of tooling business to and are very friendly with, so this is probably discounted a little as well because of that. 

In this respect I'm looking to replace some of the steel or aluminum pieces that are non wear items with plastic printed items.  It only works in some situations, but as long as you're less expensive than one off machining or even assembly line machining you're saving money.  If I can make them for $40 each from aluminum, and $30 each from plastic.  I'll buy the plastic all day long and the company pockets $10 each in savings. 

I can't look at it in terms of what does it cost me to print them.  Electricity plus plastic = not worth it.  I'm looking at it like plastic is free (less than $1), electricity is free (not worth charging for), but my time away from my wife and kids is valuable to me.  For every 1 hour that I'm not spending with them, I want to get $25+ in return or I would rather not do it. 

Designing a part this simple from start to finish in Solidworks literally only takes me about 3-4 minutes including making the STL.   But like I said I've been doing it professionally all of my adult life.  I don't even really factor that time in unless it's something complex. 

Another thing that I've seen mentioned here in several spots is that you want to charge for the trial and error of printing it once incorrectly, or if the print shifts in the middle, or making it to the correct size.  I don't agree with that.  Again going back to what I'm trying to replace.  Machining centers don't get to charge for trying and failing, production 3d printing houses don't get to charge for learning how to use their equipment, and neither should I (we).  I can't expect someone to pay me for training on my SD, I'm selling a product they have to believe I can make it over and over again without failures. 

My simple formula is going to be:
Time invested in design+
Time to setup and start printing+
Time to check on print+
Time to clean and prep print after completion+
Running time / 3 (or some factor TBD)
----------------------------------------------
Total Hours * $25 per hour = cost of print

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Sorry replying to cckens directly, I agree I will charge what I feel is fair for my time and if it comes along someone does it much cheaper, it doesn't drive me to do it cheaper since my "value of my time" doesn't change it just becomes simply not worth it to me to continue selling them. 

I bought my machine to prototype my inventions and it is doing a wonderful job of that, if I make money on the side for a little while it's just a sweet bonus.  If I learn a technology that I beleive will be very valuable in the future job market, even better bonus. 

I think each marketplace is different, I don't think I could sell bottle openers on etsy using the same pricing strategy, but in my line of work and knowing that machining costs won't go down, I think I can get away with it for a while.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

I couldn't agree more with most of what you said.  It's a difference of opinion based on life experience.  Knowing now what I know about your past experience, it makes a little sense.

That being said, I've been an avid 3d modeler for the past 12 years or so.  Designing in 3d was something that I did to create virtual objects that I could admire on screen.  Now I will have the ability to bring these objects into the real world and that excites me. 

Etsy bottle openers... *grin* Think it's being done, but that's not what I got into this for.

Background... in addition to working with computers (in all manner of ways except designing components) I'm a modeler (as stated above) and a cook.  I love to bake, especially around this time of year.  I just can't seem to find the right cookie cutters/presses that make what I want.  When I started looking into 3d printing, it came to me that I could design these things in 3d and print them out so I could have just what I want.  I went and ordered the sd2 because it was cheaper than most repraps and came out the box able to print.  In the intervening time I paid someone with a printrbot to print a design I created and had him ship it to me... at that point, I fell in love.  The look, the feel, the weight, the solidity... The piece came to me exactly as I had imagined it and it made cookies the way that I wanted them to look (at least from one model standpoint).  I've been busy designing my Christmas line for baking this year so that when I get the machine I can start producing a quality product.  May take a few tries to get it right and calibrated, but once the gCode is there, if I break it, lose it, or just otherwise destroy it, I can reprint it in a couple of hours.

Which brings me to my research.  I've seen cookie cutters all over the place as well as etsy.  Most are mass produced chinese product, but I think that my designs are more quality than theirs.  I can't compete with their pricing (most sell 3-4 pieces for about $5) as they are mass produced, but in research most of the original ones that I see on the web are being sold for ~$5 a pop.  There are variations in the pricing, but on average, that's what I see.  With the chart macmod provided, I've revised the estimate on the plastic to about $.40 a piece (based on a model that I use that has 40% infill), so $4.60 is the remainder cost.  But the pricing is immaterial, because I'd be using this primarily for my benefit.  If someone else likes and wants my designs, I'll print them one and sell it to them at my price.  If I make money on this, then I'll be putting it toward the cost of plastic, and mods/upgrades (I REALLY like the idea of the panel that lawsey posted).

I don't disagree with your pricing... I just think that if it were to a consumer market, it would be more than your average consumer will pay.  Now that I know what it's for and your audience, then you could be spot on for pricing.  I know that if someone wanted me to design and print a one-off custom cutter for them, my pricing would be a lot higher to factor in my time to desgin, test and produce (probably about 5-10 time higher depending on the complexity of the model).

I don't think that I've offended you, but if I have, I offer my apologies...

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

cckens wrote:

I don't think that I've offended you, but if I have, I offer my apologies...

Nah I think we're on the same page.  I've seen some of the cookie cutters on thingiverse and was considering making some custom ones for the play-doh for my daughter.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

the problem I see with the engineer/technician/line worker scenario is I don't want to stop being paid engineering wages just because its a menial task.
And $15 an hour ! .. I charge $50 to $60 an hour now. Still less than a plumber in australia.
I was figuring .. my time is $50 an hour even during printing, but I am not going to stand there and stare at it for hours, I can be off doing other things and checking it on occasions. So for simplification I would base a price on something like $20 to $25 an hour of machine time, until I can trust the machine .. if that happens then its a matter of taking a part off and making another. I could drop the price then, but as I see it, if the machine is tied up for a day making 8 things at one hoour each, then thats a day it could not be used for anything else.
I am pretty sure I will end up with 2 or more machines personally, but prototyping is more where I am aiming at rather than mass production.

If someone comes along and makes it cheaper, great, I will buy it from them. I am making parts I cannot buy currently.

If it takes you away from the missus and kids, put one in the corner of the loungeroom. The kids will watch if for you I am sure. hell, you could pay them to watch it.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

I like your thinking... I already pay my boy to go run and check on my prints when I am busy...

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

cmetzel wrote:

Another thing that I've seen mentioned here in several spots is that you want to charge for the trial and error of printing it once incorrectly, or if the print shifts in the middle, or making it to the correct size.  I don't agree with that.  Again going back to what I'm trying to replace.  Machining centers don't get to charge for trying and failing, production 3d printing houses don't get to charge for learning how to use their equipment, and neither should I (we).  I can't expect someone to pay me for training on my SD, I'm selling a product they have to believe I can make it over and over again without failures.

of course they charge fro that, it's just bundled in with other stuff.

you could say that training only comes out of the companies profits.
but then again the profits only come from the sale of products.

it's not an explicit charge, it'll never appear on a statement, but it is charged for!!

Stoney wrote:

the problem I see with the engineer/technician/line worker scenario is I don't want to stop being paid engineering wages just because its a menial task.
And $15 an hour ! .. I charge $50 to $60 an hour now. Still less than a plumber in australia.


$50 = £30 per hour (whether it's USD of AUD) (assuming 8 hour days etc) that suggests a salary of £58,000 a year.

that'll never work.
the OP already said that the part can be bought from others for less than that, and each part takes an hour. and that doesn't include material, or running costs, or trying to make the machine pay for itself.

I get that time away from wife and kids is valuable.
but that's exactly why I won't be spending time that I would have been spend doing stuff with the wifey, or the little one printing stuff.
I'll only be printing stuff in the time that I would have been watching TV, or playing on the internet or otherwise.

and as I said, I'll only be looking at it for a few seconds every five minutes or so.

the problem still stands though, you're not willing to work for less than £30 per hour. you'll be undercut as soon before you even finish this sentance.

lets face it, reprap forums already have the I'm  maker/I'm a designer forum, people can get decent designers at decent prices already... the actual engineering skills needed are very much reduced in this game now!

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

why wont that work ?
average aussie wage is 75k a year, I think an 8 hour a day design, engineering job is fairly deserving of the average.
Admittedly, I am not talking mass production of parts like the OP. its never going to be8 hours a day.
most of my stuff will be one off prototyping with a view towards later mass production on either CNC or injection moulded, but the above charges will be factored in as development costs for my own projects. nobody will ever see a bill for that.
I guess if someone asked me to design and make a part for them though, which will happen, i have 2 clients now who are very keen for me to get the machine, then i think the computer work is top dollar and the printing somewhat less, but you will probably heed to be at least present, thats work imo and needs to be paid for.
I guess its going to come down to how much hassle the printer turns out to be, a great deal of that is going to be how my expertise at designing ideal objects, machne maintenance and troubleshooting and experience. That is all worthy of more than minimum wage. how much more is going to be the clients decision to a large extent, most of my work is quoted first but I do heed to come up with a figure at some point.
I can tell you now its not going to be plastic and electricity cost and a few minutes per hour billed. Machine time will not be the largsst proportion though.
for eg, one job i know i have coming up is a water tap controlling a multi pump setup, the tap needs electronics housed and has levers operating multiple blades in optos, its only going to end up as 10g of plastic and will likely print in 10 minutes. I see no problems charging that at full rate.if someone wanted a large simole pbject orinted though, say it takes 8 hours to print .. then I sm not sure. To get the thing reliable enough to be able to leave it for that long is a feat in itself and requires some learned skills. Is there going to be maintenance one after that ? I just don't know how much of a timesink it will be yet.

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Here's my thought on monetizing my device.

I have a buddy that builds suspension components for cars.  Right now, he designs then, then sends them off to a prototyper that puts them out in nylon for him to do test fitting (here's a sample post, just search for "nylon" and you'll find where he talked about doing it: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthre … ost57170).  IMO, he should have a printer... but let's say he doesn't want to do the fiddling.  My competition then becomes these rapid prototyping services (which aren't cheap in my understanding).  So I either offer better/different service (local, faster, etc.) or a lower price (undercut).

I still don't think it would be a full time thing with just *one* machine.

I think the OP's case fits this.  Right now they pay X for a low volume production effort.  If he can get the business by either a) being faster/local/nepotism or b) undercutting, then he knows to either price it the same or lower (respectively).

Determining a price is easy if you know the price you need to beat big_smile

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

There are many companies out there but here is one that we've used now for a few years with good success, they have every type of machine and can offer a lot of services.  This is your competition, and they are not selling anything for $5.  I routinely write them PO's for $2000 or more. 

C.ideas

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Re: Selling prints - how much?

Stoney wrote:

why wont that work ?

of course it'll work, feel free to charge whatever you like.

but don't forget. you can be as professional as you want in your pay. but you're still 1 guy in a spare room with a printer.
people like shapeways are a much larger company, with lots of printers, lots of experiance etc and can offer a fast turn around.
the point here, is that nobody in the spare room of their house has a professional outfit. if you're going to try to charge professional rates, I as a customer would just go straight to the professional outfit.

I have no knowledge of your life career etc.
but it is fair to say that you will be operating out of home spare room/shed etc. right?

Stoney wrote:

but the above charges will be factored in as development costs for my own projects. nobody will ever see a bill for that.

I think that we're on the same page here.
for example, I could spent a solid month designing something for me.
I make it and it's all great.
if someone in the street asks me to make one for them, I can do that fine. but I'm not going to recover those development costs. (e.g. I won't charge them for the month of my time used to develop it, because I was doing it anyway!)

And just like you, if someone wants a design that's not something that I would have been doing anyway, then they can pay for that!

Stoney wrote:

i think the computer work is top dollar and the printing somewhat less, but you will probably heed to be at least present, thats work imo and needs to be paid for.

that's exactly my point.
the computer work is top dollar, (and fine, charge top dollar for that).
but assembly line machine watching is not top dollar work. it wouldn't pay top dollar anywhere else.


goofygrin wrote:

I think the OP's case fits this.  Right now they pay X for a low volume production effort.  If he can get the business by either a) being faster/local/nepotism or b) undercutting, then he knows to either price it the same or lower (respectively).

Determining a price is easy if you know the price you need to beat big_smile

Again, what I'm warning here, if your only selling point is price, then you'll son be priced out.
offer complete services, sensibly priced and you should have a good business...