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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → DIY Filament Materials → Colorants (masterbatch)
2) Get masterbatch with less imbedded pigment or a smaller pellet size (say, 1/4 the current concentration)
Use a burr grinder.
tealvince wrote:2) Get masterbatch with less imbedded pigment or a smaller pellet size (say, 1/4 the current concentration)
Use a burr grinder.
+1
The burr grinder is a bit messy and difficult to use, largely because of static. For a grinder that discharges into a plastic hopper is there some way to keep it discharged so the powder isn't sticking everywhere? Maybe an alternate container?
I had plenty of success using a mix of colorants at 32:1. Colors were consistent. If you increase the amount of colorant beyond this I don't think you will ever get the colors you are looking for.
If you want dark colors you need to work with a darker colorant...
It's not dark colors I've found problematical, but often light ones because you don't want to use too much masterbatch.
For instance, to create a yellow with a hint of red (ala constuction equipment), I'd want about a 32:1 mix with maybe 10% red and 90% yellow. But at this ratio there is so little red that what I got instead in testing is mostly yellow filament with an occasional "pulse" of orange. It makes sense to me that for consistency each color itself has to be present at some minimum ratio (measured on its own as a fraction of total volume) that depends on the extruder capacity and mixing ability of the extruder. I don't know what the exact minimum ratio is, but my guess is that's somewhere between 48:1 and 32:1 for my setup and the masterbatch. That's disappointing because it means not straying too far from roughly equal mixes of two colors. So for the basic masterbatch that means doing a medium orange (or whatever equal parts of red and yellow gives you) is probably easy, but creating a slightly orange yellow or slightly red yellow probably isn't possible without a different process or colorants.
Just throwing this out there for consideration. I know some have achieved decent results in mixing, others less so.
What if one were to mix virtually raw masterbatch (or maybe with a small amount of ABS/PLA - depending on your polymer of choice), and extrude that, then cut it up again and then use the pre-melted/mixed "masterbatch" to colour more virgin polymer. e.g.
premix as follows: 45% Yellow, 5% Red, 50% ABS (to get the "construction yellow" mentioned above). (The ABS is added to give some bulk as we use such low quantities of masterbatch you would end up with too much otherwise).
I would expect this to be (highly) unsuitable for printing, but it should be better mixed than the yellow with orange pulses mentioned above (as much more red in the mix to distribute), and then chopping it back down to 3mm pieces.
This is then used as a "construction yellow" masterbatch to colour more virgin ABS. Of course the mix ratio now has to be double the "masterbatch" due to the 50% ABS in the "masterbatch".
Disadvantages:
1) dual heating cycle
2) effort of chopping down (burr grinder, perhaps as suggested above). I was wondering about a type of cutter like a meat mincer works, or like the blade that slices off spaghetti in a factory. If cutting it off at the face of the nozzle, a taut guitar string on a servo moving back and forth might do it.
The burr grinder is a bit messy and difficult to use, largely because of static. For a grinder that discharges into a plastic hopper is there some way to keep it discharged so the powder isn't sticking everywhere? Maybe an alternate container?
Add moisture?
I resorted to washing the powder out with alcohol, but if you use too much it doesn't evaporate that fast. I wonder how hot it burns when you do a flambe?
For pelletizing I want to try using an auger in a spare Filastruder nipple. I would chuck the auger in my drill press, mount the pipe in a flange on the bed, and feed the filament through a hole drilled into the pipe. The auger should slice the filament against the sharp edge of the hole and spit pellets out the top. It would be relatively simple to use a DC motor and an idler bearing to feed the filament and control the speed (and therefore pellet size) by dialing the voltage up and down.
why not pelletize it coming out of the filstruder while hot? Seems to me a guitar string might be able to cut thru it "like butter"!
Then catch it in a bucket of water and dry later.
Just throwing this out there for consideration. I know some have achieved decent results in mixing, others less so.
What if one were to mix virtually raw masterbatch (or maybe with a small amount of ABS/PLA - depending on your polymer of choice), and extrude that, then cut it up again and then use the pre-melted/mixed "masterbatch" to colour more virgin polymer. e.g.
premix as follows: 45% Yellow, 5% Red, 50% ABS (to get the "construction yellow" mentioned above). (The ABS is added to give some bulk as we use such low quantities of masterbatch you would end up with too much otherwise).I would expect this to be (highly) unsuitable for printing, but it should be better mixed than the yellow with orange pulses mentioned above (as much more red in the mix to distribute), and then chopping it back down to 3mm pieces.
This is then used as a "construction yellow" masterbatch to colour more virgin ABS. Of course the mix ratio now has to be double the "masterbatch" due to the 50% ABS in the "masterbatch".
Disadvantages:
1) dual heating cycle
2) effort of chopping down (burr grinder, perhaps as suggested above). I was wondering about a type of cutter like a meat mincer works, or like the blade that slices off spaghetti in a factory. If cutting it off at the face of the nozzle, a taut guitar string on a servo moving back and forth might do it.
why not pelletize it coming out of the filstruder while hot? Seems to me a guitar string might be able to cut thru it "like butter"!
Then catch it in a bucket of water and dry later.
Agreed. I realise I wasn't clear, that's what I meant by this...
If cutting it off at the face of the nozzle, a taut guitar string on a servo moving back and forth might do it.
why not pelletize it coming out of the filstruder while hot? Seems to me a guitar string might be able to cut thru it "like butter"!
Then catch it in a bucket of water and dry later.
CraigRK wrote:Just throwing this out there for consideration. I know some have achieved decent results in mixing, others less so.
What if one were to mix virtually raw masterbatch (or maybe with a small amount of ABS/PLA - depending on your polymer of choice), and extrude that, then cut it up again and then use the pre-melted/mixed "masterbatch" to colour more virgin polymer. e.g.
premix as follows: 45% Yellow, 5% Red, 50% ABS (to get the "construction yellow" mentioned above). (The ABS is added to give some bulk as we use such low quantities of masterbatch you would end up with too much otherwise).I would expect this to be (highly) unsuitable for printing, but it should be better mixed than the yellow with orange pulses mentioned above (as much more red in the mix to distribute), and then chopping it back down to 3mm pieces.
This is then used as a "construction yellow" masterbatch to colour more virgin ABS. Of course the mix ratio now has to be double the "masterbatch" due to the 50% ABS in the "masterbatch".
Disadvantages:
1) dual heating cycle
2) effort of chopping down (burr grinder, perhaps as suggested above). I was wondering about a type of cutter like a meat mincer works, or like the blade that slices off spaghetti in a factory. If cutting it off at the face of the nozzle, a taut guitar string on a servo moving back and forth might do it.
Professional manufacturers run plastic multiple times to make sure it's mixed thoroughly. Extruding plastic to filament is lower temperature and less damaging to the plastic than 3D printing, so it's apparently fine to run plastic through the Filastruder multiple times. The only issue, IMO, is that it's a lot of work chopping the plastic up by hand.
There were some posts here a while ago that described a method of melting powdered pigment with raw pellets by melting it in an oven on a tray, then chopping up the resulting plastic and using it as a 'masterbatch'. I'd think you could do the same thing with masterbatch to dilute it, say 10:1, to produce lighter colors.
There were some posts here a while ago that described a method of melting powdered pigment with raw pellets by melting it in an oven on a tray, then chopping up the resulting plastic and using it as a 'masterbatch'. I'd think you could do the same thing with masterbatch to dilute it, say 10:1, to produce lighter colors.
I had a rough idea in my head for a setup drive a spring-loaded guillotine off a cam clamped onto the filastruder motor, but I decided that it would be useful to chop up any left-over filament to use as "light" colorant not just hot stuff coming out of the filastruder.
I got some promising results just carefully feeding filament onto the bit of my laminate trimmer (a small router). Unlike a blender, which recycles the chopped bits so they get hotter and hotter, I want an enclosure that lets the chopped bits fall out right after they're cut. I'm going to design a jig tonight to guide and chop up filament. I'll post when I find out if it works.
Just started trying coloring with master batch(OS Printing stock). Has anyone done a spreadsheet with data for temps? Does the color effect the extrusion temp. dramatically? I have a melt filter. Yellow seemed to force me to up the temp from 180C to 190C? Filament went from +-1.65 to +-1.55. I realize some mechanical differences may cause variables, but even a closer starting point would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Just started trying coloring with master batch(OS Printing stock). Has anyone done a spreadsheet with data for temps? Does the color effect the extrusion temp. dramatically? I have a melt filter. Yellow seemed to force me to up the temp from 180C to 190C? Filament went from +-1.65 to +-1.55. I realize some mechanical differences may cause variables, but even a closer starting point would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Are you running ABS or PLA? What is your mix ratio?
ABS - I'm using 48:1 ratio. 1 tablespoon to1 cup.
190 is on the higher end but we run our ABS machines between 180-190. I usually like to set them to 185. The ratio you are using is good. I know the height of the machine can effect the DIA. The higher the machine, the more weight there is pulling on the filament. So you may have some luck by adjusting that. I hope this helps.
Rob
Rob: What is your experience with yellow colorant specifically? Does it impact output rate or filament diameter? How much have you extruded in your shop?
Thanks Rob- Just curious, what height do you run your machines at? Are they vertical, horizontal or (like mine) at 45 degrees?
I got some pretty good results using a router to cut up filament:
I ran though some oversized filament that I'd extruded early on after drilling too large a hole in my first nozzle.
The pellet size came out perfectly serviceable. Like a burr grinder, however, there was also some finer dust that I'd probably want to filter out so it didn't end up sticking to everything.
I might try modifying a meat grinder to see if it can cut up filament with less mess. I know others have tried this to recycle old prints, but I'm thinking it might work better for filament since the cuts it would have to make would be so small.
Rob: What is your experience with yellow colorant specifically? Does it impact output rate or filament diameter? How much have you extruded in your shop?
I ran about 6 hrs worth of yellow colorant back in July. As I recall there was no effect on flow rate or diameter of the filament. I am set up a machine with yellow colorant today and this is what I got. Note the machine has a new style motor and no mesh filter. Running temperature is 180C.
Before (MG94 no colorant)
14 inches per min flow rate
1.75 +-.04
After (MG94 +yellow colorant about 50:1)
15 inches per min flow rate
1.75+-.04
Thanks Rob- Just curious, what height do you run your machines at? Are they vertical, horizontal or (like mine) at 45 degrees?
We set them up around 4ft from the ground. I have done Vertical before but most of the time they are horizontal.
On the subject of cutting filament, both the spinning knife as in a meat grinder or the the router bit should cut filament just fine. I like the router because the high speed could be used to our advantage. The issue is making small pellet size. What needs to happen is to make a feed system that feeds the filament into the blades at a constant rate where it is cut to the desired length. A feed system like on the printer extruder may be enough if it can be adjusted tight enough to keep the filament from being pulled in as it is cut. I bet it could be adjusted to make little wafers rather than pellets if the feed tolerances are tight, close to the blade and the blades are sharp enough. A heater could also be used to soften the filament right before it is cut.
On the subject of cutting filament, both the spinning knife as in a meat grinder or the the router bit should cut filament just fine. I like the router because the high speed could be used to our advantage. The issue is making small pellet size. What needs to happen is to make a feed system that feeds the filament into the blades at a constant rate where it is cut to the desired length. A feed system like on the printer extruder may be enough if it can be adjusted tight enough to keep the filament from being pulled in as it is cut. I bet it could be adjusted to make little wafers rather than pellets if the feed tolerances are tight, close to the blade and the blades are sharp enough. A heater could also be used to soften the filament right before it is cut.
Already done boss:
Apologies, I missed that. Looks great!!
I have been thinking about this and may have come up with a cheap, easy to use solution. I use products from a company called microplane. Their products are tough and shave/grid food, spices, wood and the like. I have used them in body work and fiberglass work before. They make hand grinders/shavers. With the need to have small pieces with minimal dust the non-star blades will possibly just shave the pellets. At the ratios used, there is not a large volume of color pellets to deal with. I have contacted their engineering department for an opinion on which model would be the best to test this with. If they think the blades are up to the task, the only issue I see may be to heat the pellets just enough to fuse them into a block. Hopefully we could just shave the pellets unprocessed.
Update. The engineer at microplane is going to get some pellets from their production area and test if any of their products will do the job.
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