26 (edited by adrian 2013-05-23 04:41:11)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

have you measured the resistace of the PCB ? Stick a multimeter on the two terminals of the PCB, and set it to Resistance mode.

Take that measurement, and run it through Ohms law (handy calclulator here http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_l … ulator.php )

This calculation will tell you the current your heated bed is trying to draw. It doesn't take much either to get way out of spec here..

At 12v, you want your PCB to measure 1Ohm ideally. At 12v I with 1ohm R, you'll pull 12amps.  If your calculations on the trace are off, you may only have 0.8Ohms resistance, meaning the bed by itself will be pulling 15Amp. If its as low as 0.5Ohms then you would be drawing 30Amps....

So if you are causing both PSU's to shut down, you might have really low resistance traces (Not to mention 1oz copper tracks can't handle the same current a 2oz copper track can - which is their biggest issue ). So you can't just use any random ebay board stock.....

Check the resistance of the PCB you made, work out the amps its drawing, and go from there.

27

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Wouldn't 1oz boards have lower crossectional area per trace, and therefore higher resistance?

28

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

elmoret wrote:

Wouldn't 1oz boards have lower crossectional area per trace, and therefore higher resistance?

I was just editing it then to make it clearer, was typing whilst emailing and talking on the phone wink Yeah, the resistance will read higher, but their overall current carrying capability is vastly reduced. So yeah, resistance will read higher, but current capacity will be lower, leading to failed tracks etc

29 (edited by Tomek 2013-05-23 18:21:49)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

What is probably triggering the shutdown is short-circuit protection on your power supply, seeing the large spike. Or you are unlucky and just have a particularly unstable 12V power supply. Furthermore, you need to derate the 12V amp rating substantially, since it tends to not work reliably anywhere above 70% of the rated current.   That puts you at 14A, much less leeway than your initial ratings would suggest.

I can confirm that I have a computer power supply 12V that I run at roughly 16A for my electric bike charger, and some server power supplies I've reliably pulled 30A+ from.  So as a concept, it does work.



You could also add an inductor on PCBheater inputs, to reduce the current spike when it's turned on, but the right value might be kinda high, because the arduino PWMs at such a low frequency, and because I have no idea how sensitive the short circuit protection on these power supplies are.

30

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

I should have noted that I am using 2oz double-side copper-clad pcb with only one side etched.

My problem is that the resistance of the board checks out to .5ohm, much to low.  Thanks all for the advice now at least I know what I am looking at! smile




Diecrusher wrote:

Has anyone actually got this to work?

I labored intensely over making the pcb and it came out perfect with no overlaps, etc. Did all of the Sanguino upgrades, etc.

I've tried 2 power supplies, a modified XBox 360 203w [email protected] and an ATX 12v@19a.  I did the 5v load modification to the ATX using 2 10ohm@10w power resistors wired in parallel to 5v and ground according to instructions on varying other reprap sites in order to properly load the 5v side.

Printer runs fine on both supplies - extruder, motor, etc. but as soon as I kick in the pcb heat-bed both power supplies quit.  I've retraced all of my steps numerous times but this just doesn't work.

31 (edited by FatalDischarge 2013-05-27 09:49:15)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

I would like to see some more pics of the Arduino modification. I am a bit confused on what to solder and where to as far as the bottom side jumping. The solder points seem a bit different in photos two and three of the board modification.
Also, what is the best way to get the old z screw off of the motor?

32

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

To get the rod off the motor, I would recommend prying it with something like a small crow bar. Lever it off gently instead of banging or bending.

33 (edited by adrian 2013-05-27 14:08:13)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

You could also make an improvised "Gear Puller".

Take a piece of flat metal stock about an inch wide, and dremel, nibble, hacksaw or drill (probably in that order of effort) a 5mm wide (No Wider!!) slot down it to *just past* halfway point.

Get two bolts of probably M6 or so variety, and tap two holes either side of the grove so that with the flat metal bar slotted under the lead screw and holding (but not gripping) the motor shaft, you can bolt them down against the motor face.  If you dont have taps, you can clear drill the holes and use two wingnuts attached under the metal plate.

You now simply *evenly* do up the bolts... the metal plate will cleanly and for the most part equally apply pressure directly upwards on the lead screw, and eventually, you will simply have it pop straight off. Just be sure to do it evenly.. one turn left side, one turn right side, etc etc..

The same principle as a pulley-puller, but since we cant screw against the top of the leadscrew, simply invert it, use two bolts, and screw against the motor casing (which will easily withstand the force needed to pull the screw off).

Getting it back on is another story... you basically need a dedicated Arbor Press, or at a minimum, a quality drill press...

34

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

I used the thread of the 5/16" rod itself and a couple extra nuts to keep the rod from spinning. I have pictures of the tool I used but you don't really need a special tool to make it work.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

35

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

2n2r5 wrote:

I used the thread of the 5/16" rod itself and a couple extra nuts to keep the rod from spinning. I have pictures of the tool I used but you don't really need a special tool to make it work.


Ya, I think I saw your post. It is always nice to see what others have done.

36

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Does anyone have a step by step guide for upgrading to a PCB bed on the SD3?

37

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Lawsy, did you put the new bed screw terminal in different holes? I just went to change mine to the same screw terminal you linked to and the pins are spaced out further.

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

38

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

The Sanguinololu has multiple positive and earth holes. The connector I purchased has standard 0.1 inch spacing and went into the board without issue. If yours doesn't fit, maybe you purchased one with different spacing?

39

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

lawsy wrote:

The Sanguinololu has multiple positive and earth holes. The connector I purchased has standard 0.1 inch spacing and went into the board without issue. If yours doesn't fit, maybe you purchased one with different spacing?

I bought the 5.08mm linked to in the OP. I ended up putting it in the first and third holes. That should still work, right?

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HM3130

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

40

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

1st and 3rd holes are quite ambigious.

Check this image: http://reprap.org/wiki/File:Sanguinolol … bottom.jpg

You want one terminal to be in GND, one terminal to be in 12V . GND is the port the black wire goes to, the 12V is the port the red wire goes to.

Looking at the image I posted, you want one hole from the group of 3 around the 12V label, and one of the GND labelled ones on the right or very bottom of the group.

41

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

adrian wrote:

1st and 3rd holes are quite ambigious.

Check this image: http://reprap.org/wiki/File:Sanguinolol … bottom.jpg

You want one terminal to be in GND, one terminal to be in 12V . GND is the port the black wire goes to, the 12V is the port the red wire goes to.

Looking at the image I posted, you want one hole from the group of 3 around the 12V label, and one of the GND labelled ones on the right or very bottom of the group.

The stock connector on the board of my SD3 had pins where I labeled 2 & 3. I'm not very experienced with soldering boards, but it appears that 1/2 are -V and 3/4 are 12V. So I used 1/3 in place of 2/3.

http://i.imgur.com/pX7bakF.jpg

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

42

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

that'll be all cool

43

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

200*200mm QU-BD with 10*10 tempered glass. I used Smitty505000's STLs, but had to cut out the area where the bulky section of the bed is because it was too shallow and wouldn't sit flush. The thermistor wires for the QU-BD were a tad too short, so if you pick one up add a couple inches of your own wire before adding the connector.

I have to re-solder my thermistor wire and buy some smaller gauge wire for the Dell power supply(10 gauge pictured), but it came out well. It's nice to be able to actually watch the bed temp go up without having to leave it sit. The 10*10 glass plate barely fits. I had to increase the length of the clips to fit it, but it is clearing the X-motor and wasn't too difficult to level with homing. Not bad for $2 a plate...I haven't tried extending the print area yet, below is my first test print in progress.

http://i.imgur.com/z2UCCJt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sFzJdRq.jpg

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

44

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Is there a US supplier for the upgraded terminals?  I'm not sure what keywords to use when checking out sites like mouser.  I just don't want to wait 2-4 weeks longer to get my upgrades done.

45

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Urg... Mine isn't going so well! Repiter said temp was 80c but lazer thermomiter said 110C as i turned it off i thought i heard a bit of a click... Turns out it was the glass.

Presumably this is what the PID tuning stops?

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46

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Staffordknot wrote:

Urg... Mine isn't going so well! Repiter said temp was 80c but lazer thermomiter said 110C as i turned it off i thought i heard a bit of a click... Turns out it was the glass.

Presumably this is what the PID tuning stops?

You might need to update the firmware to use the appropriate thermistors or just check the placement it.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

47 (edited by Staffordknot 2013-06-17 19:04:17)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

2n2r5... Urg how do I go about that? I read back over the earlier section of this post but to be honest the firmware bit has gone right over my head.

I presume I have to upgrade the firmware prior to running the PID. I really need walked through this stp by step because its all gobbly gook to me a the moment!

Where do i get lawsys firmware from?

Cheers

48

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

I will search around for a reasonably easy to follow how-to. If I can't find one then I will make a step by step for you.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

49 (edited by Staffordknot 2013-06-17 19:38:35)

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

Updated 14-8-12 marlin version 1 by lawsy is my version.

Cheers buddy, really appreciate it!

50

Re: Heated Bed Upgrade - Guide with Pics/Comparisons/STLs

I think I'm having the same issue as StaffordKnot. My IR thermometer maxes out at 110c and cannot read the temp of my glass when fully heated at 95c. I ordered a better model this morning for this reason.

I notice the plate radiates more heat when I open the case and my first print had a mirror finish on the bottom. It looks pretty cool, but something tells me it's not supposed to be that hot. Luckily the 3/16" tempered glass hasn't cracked. Would also be interested in a how to for PID tuning and firmware update for the QU-BD thermistor.

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3