Saffire SLA printer (Page 1 of 2)

I think it's actually quite expensive for the quality of output. 

I looked them up, and they show some closeup photos of their prints.  On the black or dark grey resin models, the layering is extremely obvious.  I would expect a lot better from an SLA printer at 0.05mm.

I printed an half size Eiffel tower the other day, and I can't see the layers.  I'm sure if I prime it with a fine layer of flat black I might see something, but noting like the uneven layering I see on the SafFire printer.

Here are also a couple of parts I printed in grey v2 resin at 0.05mm and primed with a fine layer of flat black to enhance details.  it took a few tries to get it to show the layers, but you can see they're much finer and more evenly distributed than what I see on the SafFire samples.

My Eiffel tower is also printed vertically, without any supports.  Also the original model was intended to be printed at twice the size in 2 parts, so the bracing is very thin at this size, which lead to some areas not printing properly, especially the fine, teardrop areas over the main arches.  But overall, it pretty good.

so to address your post about the quality here is a phot of the Eiffel tower I printed.

note I a lost power during the print so the top is missing. it was also printed in sections and I didn't do a great job of sanding it flat after removing it from the bed. it is also a lot smaller then yours. however as you can see it is very detailed.

To be honest I search high and low for SLA printers and your post is the first I have heard of this printer.  Even a Google search for SLA resin printers does not show this unit. It would seem they have no marketing experience.

I am curious why you print hollow? It really does not take that much more resin and there is no need for a drain hole either.On that one model you show the hollow is very obvious and detracts from the appearance. I guess if you plan to paint it would not that big of a deal.

I printed an 18mm figure on my Form 1+ when I had it. I hope the D7 I am getting will yield similar results. Where I live there is a gaming store that specializes in the games that use miniatures. I am hoping to see if I can get a business going with them where the players can custom design their models and then I will print them for them. If I get get enough in Blender and Makehuman i might even just have them give rough sketches and then I would create the model in digital format, see if they like it then print it. They can do the painting if they want.

Here is that 18mm archer I printed. The clear resin make him look like he is using some sort of stealth spell.

I am done with kickstarters ever since I got ripped off on the Peachy Printer. I just can't trust them.

Checked on tracking, I should be getting my D7 Thursday. But I still plan to get a Form 1+ as well. I dread ever selling it.

There are 2 reasons why you want to print hollow.

1.  It save resin.  While a smaller piece like the archer you show doesn't make a much difference, on larger objects it does.  I'm not sure how other SLA softwares/printers work, but on the Form/PreForm, everything is printed solid, There is no option for a lower percentage infill like on FDM printing.  So it's up to you to hollow out the model.  Depending on the model, and the thickness of the wall, you can save 50% or more of the total volume if you hollow out the object.

2.  The bigger reason is to provide as small a cross section as you can.  The smaller the cross section, the easier it is to peel, hence the peel forces are lower, the chances of the model breaking off the supports are reduced, and so are the chances of distortion/elongation.

Here are some photos that illustrate both points.  The solid piece is 47.71mL (no accounting for any supports).  The same piece, hollowed out to 1.5mm thick walls, is only 9.57mL (1/5th the volume of the the solid piece.  Then take a look at the cross section between the two.  Which one presents the least surface?

Which brings us to the holes.  Why do we need holes?  The holes are needed for 2 reasons.

1.  One reason is to relieve any back pressure/suction.  Imagine that hollow sphere, as it's being printed, it acts as a suction cup against the PDMS layer, which would create the same problems as if printing the piece solid.  Or worse, it could tear the PDMS.

2.  The second reason is to allow drainage of any trapped resin, which inevitably happens as the last few layers close up the hollow.

Hope this sheds some light as to why hollowing out a model for SLA printing is desirable.

Here is the result from the saffire after removing the supports.
something happened to the middle rock I must have popped it off while removing the supports.

ok here is a side by side comparison from my wanhao d7 print and a my saffire print. Both prints where done at .05 mm

one thing that I can notice with the two prints in hand is that the saffire looks crisper. this then tends to highlight the layers more visually in the saffire.

This leads to more of a blending of the layers on the d7 running my fingers over the two they are both very smooth to the feel. The d7 feels a bit smoother but. I think that is due to it not being as precise in how it exposes the resin.  When I do a 10 mm test cube the safire came out at 10.02 and the d7 at 10.36

I think some of this is due to the way the platform works but it could be due to the way the lcd exposes the resin not being as precise as a laser.  Its possible that you will find similar things between the d7 and the form 1.

I was going to spray the d7 print with a light coating of primer to help being out the details but I didn't want to clean my air brush again today however the details on the armor is much more notable on the saffire print.

now time wise the d7 is way faster. The print on the d7 was about 3 and a half hours, and adding more of them to the plate doesn't really affect build time.

The saffire was about 8 hours and adding more to the plate does add to the time (same with a form 1 or a form 2)
I might be able to reduce the time on the saffire by changing some of the settling times which is the main length of time on this printer. I don't think that is something you have to deal with the other bottom up peeling system since it really the distance between the build platform and the fep/tray.

Another thing to consider is its easier to print larger items on those systems.

With the saffire if you want to print something that is 58 mm tall you need to have at least 58 mm of resin in the tank. and there isn't any toping off the tank during the print.

That's not the case with the d7 or formlabs printers. as the resin will fill in the and as long as you don't drain the tank down to low that there isn't enough to fill it in you can keep going even with just a few mm of resin in the tank. you can also top it off if its getting low. The form 2 even auto fills it for you.

Its to big for me to print without segmenting. Do you already have it segmented? If not I'll split it up so I can print it
I only have the small accessory. so the build volume is 82.5 mm x 120 mm x 80 and I only get the 8o in z if I have a full vat of resin right now I have 50 mm of resin without mixing in another type and I don't know how the two would react to each other.

There's a difference between Z layer thickness and the X-Y resolution, or rather the ability to resolve small features and gaps.  That's where the laser shines, and the DLP falls short.

The Form 1+/2 spec says it's capable of 300 micron minimum features.  The minimum feature size for a DLP printer is related to the DLP chip resolution, the magnification of the image, and the optics.  Most DLP printers fail to produce features that are less than 500 microns in diameter, or alternately will print a minimum size 500 microns, regardless of actual size.