1

Topic: First 3d printer

Hi all, I am relatively new with 3d printers (have worked with a stsratasys printer at my high school before) and have been itching to build one to use at home for a while now.  I am on a relatively tight budget of $500 and am stuck over a few kits- the Wilson II, the Folger I3, and the Folger Kossel.  Between these three is the quality of the Wilson (https://www.bing.com/search?q=reprap+wi … orm=APMCS1) worth the extra money over the Folgers?  Are there better options for me under 500? Keep in mind that I have limited electronics experience, but am willing to spend time to learn more.  Thanks!

-Yak

2

Re: First 3d printer

from the looks of this page: http://reprapwilson3d.com/?variant=9962892101 - the Wilson is currently sold out...
beyond that - eh, not sure about the design itself - there is an awful lot of plastic involved and that means a lot places for failure/misalignment/various other issues.

I have both the FolgerTech 2020 Prusa i3 and the FolgerTech Kossel kits...
for a first timer I don't recommend the Kossel - it is fairly easy to build, but very fussy to calibrate.

The 2020 Prusa i3 is a decent machine for the price and fairly easy to build & calibrate. There is also a lot of support and info available for them in the form of forums like this one, and Facebook groups as well
I would not recommend the acrylic version, however - too many issues with the acrylic cracking during assembly, and it isn't as stable as the 2020 extrusion

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

3

Re: First 3d printer

Ok, so the wilson and the kossel are not options then.  Are there any other kits out there based on the Prusa design with higher quality parts (extruder, power supply, stepper motors)?

-Yak

4

Re: First 3d printer

Ok, so the wilson and the kossel are not options then.  Are there any other kits out there based on the Prusa design with higher quality parts (extruder, power supply, stepper motors)?

So you have a $ 500 budget.
The prusa I3 variants are a fairly solid choice for an entry level printer.
I purchased a FT kit the end of february this year. I have not seen any major issues in the items you listed they all seem up to the task. Even the extruder and hot end work fine. I did upgrade the extruder and hot end to a Titan and ED3v6 IIRC about $140 . but this was a want to rather than a need to.  this is an easy upgrade especial if done as part of the build rather than build tear off parts and replace.

I will say the FT kit is light on plastic 3d printed parts mostly metal.  all in all a good kit especially for less than $300. this allows $200 for upgrades and filament.


You may want to take a look at http://wanhaousa.com/products/duplicator-i3-steel-frame this is not a kit in the sence of putting all the parts together.  It is flat shipped  meaning the vertical tower z axis has to be bolted to the base so some assembly required.   the PS control box is a separate unit so a little more care to move transport and a little more table space. the do an excellent job of cable management and the z axis screws are much better quality  than the   FT kit I have the screws on mine are functional but basically bottom of the barrell kicked around in a box junk.


The Duplicator I3 V2.1 - Steel Frame also uses aluminum blocks to hold the bearings for the  X and Z axis as apposed to plastic mounts and wire ties on the FT kit. the only area where i feel the duplicator cheaped out is the end stops.  no pcb just the switches and mounts are a little small and may be prone to damage. And the price is $ 399 .

Also keep in mind many of these products are getting regular improvements.
tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

5

Re: First 3d printer

Tin Falcon wrote:

So you have a $ 500 budget.
The prusa I3 variants are a fairly solid choice for an entry level printer.
I purchased a FT kit the end of february this year. I have not seen any major issues in the items you listed they all seem up to the task. Even the extruder and hot end work fine. I did upgrade the extruder and hot end to a Titan and ED3v6 IIRC about $140 . but this was a want to rather than a need to.  this is an easy upgrade especial if done as part of the build rather than build tear off parts and replace.

I will say the FT kit is light on plastic 3d printed parts mostly metal.  all in all a good kit especially for less than $300. this allows $200 for upgrades and filament.


You may want to take a look at http://wanhaousa.com/products/duplicator-i3-steel-frame this is not a kit in the sence of putting all the parts together.  It is flat shipped  meaning the vertical tower z axis has to be bolted to the base so some assembly required.   the PS control box is a separate unit so a little more care to move transport and a little more table space. the do an excellent job of cable management and the z axis screws are much better quality  than the   FT kit I have the screws on mine are functional but basically bottom of the barrell kicked around in a box junk.


The Duplicator I3 V2.1 - Steel Frame also uses aluminum blocks to hold the bearings for the  X and Z axis as apposed to plastic mounts and wire ties on the FT kit. the only area where i feel the duplicator cheaped out is the end stops.  no pcb just the switches and mounts are a little small and may be prone to damage. And the price is $ 399 .

Also keep in mind many of these products are getting regular improvements.
tin

The Duplicator appears to be a better build for not much more money.  Is there as much support for the Duplicator as the Folger?  I have also heard there are problems with the Folger's firmware... any issues with the Duplicator?

-Yak

6

Re: First 3d printer

The only complaint I have heard about the duplicator is that everything is pretty much hard wired.  So it may mean you need soldering skills to replace some parts / upgrade there is talk of an upgraded version with connectors but IIRC about  $120 more.

I can confirm  the  FT firmware being buggy at least when I built mine.  I will say from what I see both vendors are doing almost constant if not regular improvements.
I have a friend that has a 3d printing /filament business he is planning on selling the duplicator as part of a beginner training class . I will try to get some more info I hope to see him this weekend.

The FT support is what I would call good.  It is strictly e-mail support.  Like any TS it feels they ask 20  questions before giving anything away.    It took a week and a half to get two screws. 

In there defence i will say the web page says expect a response in 48 hours. IIRC i heard back in 3-4 hours the first time and I was getting e-mails at 10 in the evening. 

I have no experience with ts from Wanhao   .   

IMHO the Wanhao you can have it together and printing in a day. The FT you will be fortunate to have it running and printing in a long weekend.  I was experienced printing when I built mine . I am an experienced technician with electronics an mechanics. I have converted a couple machines to cnc . it took 2 days to build the FT I3 . yes there were distractions but I hoped to have it running in a day . that did not happen. 

If you want to learn the nuts and bolts and the details of building a printer  the FT is the way to go. If you want something to print with without a lot of fuss the duplicator is likely a better choice.

tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

7

Re: First 3d printer

I will probably go there route of the FT then.  I am a tinkerer by nature and enjoy messing with this kind of stuff.  Learning how these machines work and how to manipulate them is half of why I want to get into the hobby.  I will do some more research on the Folger before I jump in, and go from there.  I guess the question now would be whether there is a Folger equivalent for a little more money that has higher quality parts going into it.  I want to build the printer, but not have to constantly replace parts because they were the cheapest available.  I would build a printer from scratch, but I just don't have the electrical/coding experience.

-Yak

8 (edited by Tin Falcon 2016-05-12 01:34:23)

Re: First 3d printer

If you are intent on a kit IMHO the FT kit is good way to go . the only part failures I have experienced with mine is a driver a $2 part  (they do include a spare) and a end stop clip easily printed a replacement. like i said the z axis rod are a bit chintzy but they work. And for the price there is money in the budget for improvements if you choose to make them .
The FT kit ships from USA and has good support. 

If you want better quality they are out there.  the best PRUSA is a real prusa  but  $780 shipped

http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/17-3d-printers


Another option is the maker farm Kit  http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/3d-p … usion.html the kit is 499  but you need to add a power supply  + $30  and an aluminum bed plate is + 20 and you will need filament  + shipping so you are into almost $600.


I too have considered a scratch build and I may do one but just sourcing all the parts takes time and  you usually end  up paying extra in shipping  .

Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

9

Re: First 3d printer

Alrighty, I will weigh the pros and cons of both printers and go from there.  Thanks for the help narrowing it down between the Folger and the Duplicator!

-Yak

10

Re: First 3d printer

You are not unwise in considering quality of main components. And a kit from Prusa or maker farm will have better quality parts. But as you can see it will cost $$ .

The other question you need to ask yourself is this first printer one you intend to keep for the long haul say 5 years. Or is it a learning tool to figure out what you want . A proverbial stepping stone. A quality printer for under $ 500 seems to be a bit of a holy grail. 
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

11

Re: First 3d printer

there is a "new" version of the firmware for the Folgertech Prusa i3 out that is much less buggy than the original version, and there is an updated build guide to go with it (especially in regards to endstop placement & wiring - you want the one labeled "Beta")

There is nothing wrong with the Folgertech 2020 Prusa i3 kit. with the updated firmware and assembly instructions you should have no problem building it and running it.

The frame is quite solid and the extruder/hotend assembly is fine. Mine still has the stock hotend on it, altho I did "upgrade" the extruder assembly slightly by printing & installing a spring loaded tensioner - something that the current kit should now have (it did not when i bought mine about a year ago)

The only thing they have not implemented to date is proper belt tensioning, which is a fairly easy thing to take care of once you have it up and running.
During the build process, you will need to make sure you get the belts as snug as you can so they don't skip - use the springs if needed to provide extra tension, then, once you have it running, print out a few extra pieces to properly tension the belts. (files are available for free on thingiverse)

For the price of this printer, it really is hard to beat.

again, I would suggest going with the 2020 version, NOT the acrylic... the 2020 is more stable, stronger and $10 cheaper...

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

12

Re: First 3d printer

Five years would be on the dot.  This is a printer I am building/using in my last year of high school, and probably taking to college.  Will I get that long of a life out of either printer given that it is properly maintained?

Heartless, if the firmware is indeed fixed that draws my choice to printer quality vs experiencing the build process.

-Yak

13

Re: First 3d printer

i dont see why it wouldnt last if properly maintained. I have hauled mine to the local farmers market multiple times with no problems (other than needing to be re-leveled) the frame has held up well

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

14

Re: First 3d printer

I have decided on the Folger I3.  Now, would it be recommended to purchase the lcd display to go with the printer?  Folger also sells lead screws on their website... Should I purchase one to fix the small z axis issue and get that out of the way?

-Yak

15

Re: First 3d printer

LCD is entirely up to you. do you want to be tethered to a computer while printing or not?

for me it isn't a big issue to be connected to the computer full time, so I don't really have a need of the LCD/SD reader setup. I have one here, but have never installed it on anything...

I cant really comment on the leadscrew issue, either. Mine works fine with the stock 5mm threaded rods, but your mileage may vary...

my personal suggestion is to build it in stock form to start with (either with or without the LCD) and see how it does - get a feel for it. you can always upgrade to the leadscrews later if you decide you need/want to.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

16

Re: First 3d printer

Well, now to figure out paypal funds.  Thanks for the help Heartless and Tin Falcon!  Hopefully I'll be able to do the same for someone else down the road.

-Yak

17

Re: First 3d printer

IMHO the LCD is worth the extra $ 10  it releases  the tether  from the computer. I had no problem hooking it up.
As far as the lead screws they are 8mm vs 5 mm it might be a bit of a trick to make them fit.
So you may want to seek some 5mm lead screws and nuts. or 3/16 screws and nuts.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

18

Re: First 3d printer

The Folger Tech 2020 i3 is on its way!  I purchased the LCD and some PLA with the printer.  Now its time to jump head first into that 170 page thread over on the Reprap forums...

-Yak

19

Re: First 3d printer

there is also a Facebook group dedicated to the FolgerTech printers (if you use FB) - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Folgert … =bookmarks

there is a lot of information in the reprap thread, but the greater majority of it is going to be outdated by now since there have been updates to both the firmware and build manual...

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

20

Re: First 3d printer

I would download and read the assembly manual  and the setup manual from ft . there is no paper manual that comes with it.
Also  download the marlin files and the arduino program to load the board.

You will also need  the Repetier  Host with slic3r and Cura  slicers.

I will say loading the firmware is easy and straightforward.
I did have some fun with the  endstop settings.
Ft has revised it since I built my kit. So should be less fuss.

POI  the board receives power from both the USB connection and the power supply . do double  and triple check the power is OFF / unplugged both places before checking any board connections straightening bent pins etc. DAMHIKT.

Aslo if you uncomment remove the "//" from the lines
# define EPROM_Setttings
# define EPROM_Chitchat

this will allow you to access the steps per mm settings and PID from your RH.

As far as the 178 pages of forum chat IMHO save that for answering a question later . It could be confusing
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

21 (edited by Tin Falcon 2016-05-22 14:18:51)

Re: First 3d printer

The Folger Tech 2020 i3 is on its way!


OOOH and they apparently just released the FT 5 for $ 499   timing is everything.

If it makes you feel any better I just put out  about $$ 60 electronics Arduino 2560 and ramps board thinking os a scratch build.

Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

22

Re: First 3d printer

Alright, I will save that thread for troubleshooting then.  I haven't messed with any host or slicer programs before, so that should be  a bit of an adventure-not that thats a bad thing.  And I have told myself I would never get a Facebook, but all these product groups kind of make me want to sign up.

I saw the FT 5 as I was checking out... figured I would go with the I3 anyway because of the price and the the mods out there for it.  I also realized I am going to need to build a dry box for the filament and a fume extractor for the printer, so that limited my budget a little.  If I ever build one from scratch it would look something like the FT 5.  Btw, have you tried printing nylon on the I3?

-Yak

23 (edited by Tin Falcon 2016-05-22 19:11:24)

Re: First 3d printer

I saw the FT 5 as I was checking out... figured I would go with the I3 anyway because of the price and the the mods out there for it.  I also realized I am going to need to build a dry box for the filament and a fume extractor for the printer, so that limited my budget a little.  If I ever build one from scratch it would look something like the FT 5.  Btw, have you tried printing nylon on the I3?

The price is very attractive for the I3 IMHO a lot of bang for the buck for either kit but the FT 5 is a bigger bang therefore bigger buck probably better left for a second build or a bigger budget.

Not sure what filaments you are planning to use  but I personally have not seen a need for  a dryer box or fume extractor.

I will admit I print almost exclusively with PLA  I have done a little with ngen . I will also admit I selected PLA as i am on daily Meds for asthma and did not want to risk ABS . I do try to bag  open rolls but should do a better job.
I live in a relatively  humid part of the USA between a large river/bay and the Ocean.
I do have a food dryer /dehydrator I could put is service I suppose if i needed to.

Good luck with the build will help  if I can.

No have not done nylon. not sure if the stock ft extruder will handle it. I have upgraded to the ED3v6 and titan so nylon should be doable for me.

Just build the kit and learn to tune it well before spending money on extras.  Also I am one who has yet to motivate to add the "needed "layer fan for PLA but stil get some good prints.


Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

24

Re: First 3d printer

keeping filament dry will depend a lot on where you live. If you deal with high humidity, then yeah, I would suggest a sealed container with desiccant in it. If you live in a relatively dry climate, you may be able to get away without it.

In stock form, not sure how well the Prusa will do with Nylon... Nylon requires fairly high extruder temps, and does like to warp if the bed is not prepped well.
That said, I have had very good luck with Taulman 910 Nylon Alloy on my #1 SD4- extruder temp about 245-250C, bed about 70C using glue-stick on glass for adhesion. The stock FT 2020 Prusa "should" be able to handle that.

With the FT-5 being a brand new offering, there isn't going to be as much information/support out there for it yet. It will take a little time to get all the bugs worked out of that one. wink

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

25

Re: First 3d printer

Yeah, Chitown summers get pretty darn humid...

I will probably upgrade to the e3d v6 at some point in order to print nylon.  I am going to learn the basics on PLA though... I've read it tends to be more forgiving than ABS and the likes.

As with anything, I am going to take the time to learn this in and out.  From there, who knows!

-Yak