26 (edited by adrian 2014-05-07 09:03:00)

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Since you can't actually IR sample glass...  You are rather reading a scattered reading from the silicone underneath... as the IR will pass right through the glass and not reflect (which is how the camera measures temp.. reflected IR). So you haven't actually ever read the 'top of the glass' temperature unless you used a *contact* thermometer or thermocouple (or thermistor) - rather you are reading the reflected IR after it passes through the top layers of glass, get bent slightly, reflect off the silicone, get bent again, and then reflected back to the camera ('transmitted IR' vs 'reflected IR')...

Then there is also the 'spot size' one must account for - where the readings reported are averages over that spot size which will change based on distance and focus... so you actually could be reading a 1mm square area, or actually averaging and quanitizing a 20mm area....  Refer to you camera manual for the spot size and recommended focus distance based on the angle of the cone of the spot beam...

Have a read about emissivity too - theres a bit more to it than pointing a thermal camera at it. Different object have different emissivities which you need to account for. So a shiny metal object will 'reflect' more IR than a dull grey one, which will be different to an organic object,  resulting in *apparent* temp differences when there is not. Hence cameras will have an Emissivity value to compensate one or the other, but not both...  or it'll be just hardcoded to .95 for 'organic' objects and you have to compensate by reading a piece of electrical tape stuck to the glass...

As for the thermistor - all depends on what Beta value is on the thermistor they used. The QU-BD beds have wildly different beta's to the 'standard' EPCOS 100k NTC used most commonly - as a suggestion - try the Type 80 setup as per a QU-BD.

27 (edited by wardjr 2014-05-07 19:30:54)

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Willyum1370 wrote:

Great. Ha ha I know! I couldve just dropped them off! Im waiting for your review.

So just for fun I installed the new heat pad and ran some comparisons.
The first thing I did was installed a new 340 watt PSU to ensure stable results.  The printer sides were enclosed but the top was open.  I also used the stock thermistor and am saving the one impregnated into the heater for when the stock one fails.  This was mostly to ensure similar readings across both heaters.
Then I timed the stock heater and came up with this...

Stock Bed Heater took 10 minutes to go from 22 degrees - 105 degrees (no screen shot)

Then the new heater...
New Bed Heater took 5 minutes to go from 22 degrees - 105 degrees

http://i.imgur.com/L4nGVsD.png
I ran this test 3 times and came very close to the same numbers each time. So yes, I rounded off but only by a few seconds either way.
Then just for the fun of it I ran this same test on my 500 watt AC bed heater.

http://i.imgur.com/3l5iCwP.png

That's right 20 degrees - 108 degrees in 51 seconds!!!
Just to be fair I would like to point out that in such a short time there is no way that the heat is soaked through to the top.  So I figure for all practical purposes the shortest heat up time required by any bed heater to fall into that 5 minute zone.
A few of things to note if buying this heater.
1.  The wires are perfect in length but have no ends on them so be prepared to crimp or solder.
2.  The holes were a ways off for the leveling screws.  This was easily fixed by trimming some rubber away just be careful
     that you don't cut into the conductors of the heater.
3.  No documentation comes with this heater in regards to the thermistor type or the rated wattage. 
     (maybe it's here on the forum and I missed it)  It would be nice if even on the receipt there was this information for 
     future reference.   

At this point I would give this heater two thumbs up for being as advertised with a couple of words of caution.

A more robust power supply is recommended (I did do some initial testing with the stock PSU) and it is a must if you are running an E3D with this bed heater.

I find that having the fiberglass under the heater helps to stabilize the temps.  I was fortunate to have the fiberglass come off with the adhesive backing in tact but wouldn't expect that to be the norm.  It isn't needed but if you wish to reuse it plan on some way of adhering it to the new heat pad.

I would like to say thank you for the extremely fast delivery of this unit.  And don't worry I have no intentions of throwing away my 500 watt heater so this should last a long time. wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

28

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Adrian, thanks a lot for your explanations !

I'll try the type 80, and will check.

SD3, early 2013. Silicon 200W 8x8 heater bed, lawsy carriage on 8 mm hardened chrome shafts, E3D V6 and lawsy MK5 extruder, ATX 350 W PSU, Custom build plywood enclosure, azteeg x5 mini smothie firmware, with vikki 2 screen, fishing line conversion and pulley conversion, M5 Z rod. Calling it Gran'ma, going strong ! <3

29

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

@wardjr : how do you put the power in the bed ? thru your control card (what card ? ) ? or thru a relay controlled by the card ?

30

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

ysb wrote:

@wardjr : how do you put the power in the bed ? thru your control card (what card ? ) ? or thru a relay controlled by the card ?

If your referring to my 500 watt heat bed it is switched through a Solid State Relay that is controlled by the regular bed heater outputs.  It is powered by AC so the load isn't on the board.  Does that answer your question?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

31

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Thanks for the positive review Wardjr. Yeah, no idea on the thermistor type, the manufacturer didnt provide any documentation for me to pass along... I thought of putting the correct connectors for the printrboards but I figured its best to do some modifications then to have it draw the power straight through the board.

32

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Just ordered one. Looking forward to getting the package!

33

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Allright, I can now confirm that the thermistor is a type 80.

The temperatur info is very accurate, I checked it with a TC that I had on my multimeter.

Thanks adrian for this info

SD3, early 2013. Silicon 200W 8x8 heater bed, lawsy carriage on 8 mm hardened chrome shafts, E3D V6 and lawsy MK5 extruder, ATX 350 W PSU, Custom build plywood enclosure, azteeg x5 mini smothie firmware, with vikki 2 screen, fishing line conversion and pulley conversion, M5 Z rod. Calling it Gran'ma, going strong ! <3

34

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Type 80 as in, in the firmware // 80 is QU-BD thermistor as found in QU-BD silicone bed?

35

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Yep, the type 80 for QU BD in marlin firmware.

Now it shows real temperature, and the bed is actually heating faster than what i wrote before. from room temp to 90 in about 3 to 4 min. And then to 105 in another 3 - 4 min.

SD3, early 2013. Silicon 200W 8x8 heater bed, lawsy carriage on 8 mm hardened chrome shafts, E3D V6 and lawsy MK5 extruder, ATX 350 W PSU, Custom build plywood enclosure, azteeg x5 mini smothie firmware, with vikki 2 screen, fishing line conversion and pulley conversion, M5 Z rod. Calling it Gran'ma, going strong ! <3

36

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

yes thanks... it's how i connected my qu-bd silicon pad a long time ago on my SD2


wardjr wrote:
ysb wrote:

@wardjr : how do you put the power in the bed ? thru your control card (what card ? ) ? or thru a relay controlled by the card ?

If your referring to my 500 watt heat bed it is switched through a Solid State Relay that is controlled by the regular bed heater outputs.  It is powered by AC so the load isn't on the board.  Does that answer your question?

37

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

I have bought one of these bed heaters and have everything hooked up.
But the SSR 60 DD i bought gets extremely hot, It's also mounted it to back of the case.
Do i have the right SSR? 
I have also connected the heat pad straight to the  360 watt power supply
and it heats up a lot faster. so i am thinking that i have the wrong SSR.
any one have a recommendation

38

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

jkallas77 wrote:

I have bought one of these bed heaters and have everything hooked up.
But the SSR 60 DD i bought gets extremely hot, It's also mounted it to back of the case.
Do i have the right SSR? 
I have also connected the heat pad straight to the  360 watt power supply
and it heats up a lot faster. so i am thinking that i have the wrong SSR.
any one have a recommendation

That's the 60A one right? I'm not a pro on them but I know they get hot especially during initial heat up, make sure PID is used and calibrated right. Other than that, be glad the heat is coming from a replaceable SSR and not your sensitive printer board smile

39

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Yes it is a 60 A. After 30 min. of use last night I have noticed that the plastic on the SSR has started to melt, That has me a little worried. I thought by mounting the SSR to the back of the case would dissipate some of the heat.
Do i need to run a heat sink and fan?
i have not went into the firmware and calibrated it yet, I just wanted to make sure I am good with the SSR before i calibrate.

40

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

I just want to know with all the conversation about SSR's getting hot.  Are you not using one rated for what your doing?
The correct SSR should NOT get hot, period.  I say this with concern for your health and home.
Look at what I am pounding through mine (signature) and it doesn't even get warm.  If you need help ask before you burn your house down.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

41

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

jkallas77 wrote:

I have bought one of these bed heaters and have everything hooked up.
But the SSR 60 DD i bought gets extremely hot, It's also mounted it to back of the case.
Do i have the right SSR? 
I have also connected the heat pad straight to the  360 watt power supply
and it heats up a lot faster. so i am thinking that i have the wrong SSR.
any one have a recommendation

Is this the one your using?
http://www.amazon.com/SSR-60DD-Covered- … B00DUYYS1U
If so it's not the correct one.
Tell me about your setup and I will help you choose the appropriate SSR.
Things to know
1. Rated Wattage of your heater DC or AC
2. If DC rated output of your PSU

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

42

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

wardjr,
Thanks for the reply, the comments that i have

1. heat pad
200 w DC the one mentioned at the top of this forum from e-bay

2. Power Supply 360w 30Amp

3. SSR 60 A  3-32vdc input and 5-110vdc output

I was going to put links but it will not let me.

43

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

This isn't the right place for this discussion so I sent you an email

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

44

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

You can't post links until something like 10 posts (anti-spam)
You should have my email by now so send the links and pics there.
Otherwise we should move out of the Buy/sell/trade and over to Hacks and Mods.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

45

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

I just bought one of these for my SD3 Wow  what a difference  . Heats to 105 C  in 4 minutes  and 10 seconds . much better than  the 15 minutes it used to take  the bed temps are much more even across the whole bed . I use a separate power supply for the heaters set to 14.5 volts and capable of providing 30 amps . I also use an independent monitor that I built to double check temps ,voltages and amp draws. My original heater  pulled 2.9 amps the new one pulls 7.5 amps . for $21.00 + $4.99 shipping ,this was a great upgrade . The link to my monitor is  https://tinkercad.com/things/g1vFJBOX838  from there you can find it on Thingiverse also , just search solidoodle  or monitor

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SD3, RAMPS 1.4, Lawsy's carriages modified by me, 2 SSRs, E3D V6, 2 Power supplies, Independent monitoring of both power supplies (amps and volts) also extruder and bed temps, Blue Tooth connectivity, bearings in all axis & rotational points, Y axis direct drive.  Remotely controlled power box on / off . Gecko Tec build plate . Renamed FrankenDoodle

46 (edited by slimstar2 2014-08-24 19:20:35)

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

I just bought this and WOW! great price, easy installation, fast shipping ( $20.99 + $4.99 shipping ) . It heats entire bed very evenly 12 F maximum difference from center to edge. Heats from room temp to 110 C in about 4 minutes and 20 seconds with glass plate . Pulls 7.8 amps at 14.56 volts. This is 1 of the best upgrades you can do . Wish I had done it sooner.

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SD3, RAMPS 1.4, Lawsy's carriages modified by me, 2 SSRs, E3D V6, 2 Power supplies, Independent monitoring of both power supplies (amps and volts) also extruder and bed temps, Blue Tooth connectivity, bearings in all axis & rotational points, Y axis direct drive.  Remotely controlled power box on / off . Gecko Tec build plate . Renamed FrankenDoodle

47

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

Ok I now have a reasonable means of offering international shipping. I got a quote for shipping to Australia of $5.40. I also put a 20% discount into the international shipping price just in case it is a little high. I hope this helps someone if they are still interested in upgrading. My price is very comparable to the Qu-Bd bed as well.

Also its now over 300w and its crazy powerful, so please get a relay.

Link to eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Solidoodle- … 2c8aedfb39

Thanks

48

Re: SILICONE HEAT BED SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLIDOODLE 3!!!

I installed this a while back and loving the time savings and even temp. I did not see an 80 thermister setting in marlin so i found what i believe to be the proper settings (see below) as the are the for the 3950k used in the qubd beds. Is this the correct table for this sd3 heated bed? If not i would apreciate if  somone coul post the correct one 

http://nutz95.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/ … 950-table/