1 (edited by DigitalWhitewater 2013-08-17 10:53:18)

Topic: Burnt out stepper question

Hi,

So I upgraded my power supply, added the power jumper wires to the back of the board,put it back together and plugged it all in. My moment of personal triumph was done and I'd soon be printing again.  Or so I thought.

I plug her in, and viola, I hear it all powering up. Suddenly a crackle & a flame jumped off the board. I quickly killed the power and things calmed back down. The only casualty (thankfully enough) appears to be the chips on two of the stepper motors. [pictures to come soon]

So does anyone have a good supplier source for new steppers? Or amazon link please.

On that same note, if i'm replacing them anyways, is there a better stepper solution then the pololus that I might as well upgrade to (and supplier link please)?

SD2 w/ mods: Rumba controller, ATX PSU, SD pro case, glass bed, with more to come...

2 (edited by FatalDischarge 2013-08-17 22:50:45)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

I don't know. Maybe this: http://www.panucatt.com/product_p/sd82b.htm or this: http://www.panucatt.com/product_p/sd8825.htm
While you're there you might want to consider getting a new board.
I have to ask, did you cry? I know I might have cried a little.

3

Re: Burnt out stepper question

Great thanks!

Real men don't cry! I actually didn't have time to. I was more concerned with my curtains above my SD catching fire. I had added a pair of 40mm fans to cool the board, but I think that just feed the spark as the quick burst of flame shoot above the back of the SD. It was amazing to see blow, but hurt painfully at the same time.

The bkard itself appears to be fine. Its only the two steppers.
I'm checking out some RAMPs 1.4 replacements right now. I think that's the way to go as I'll be able to add all the mods like printed heater, extra fans, much easier and get better quality prints.

SD2 w/ mods: Rumba controller, ATX PSU, SD pro case, glass bed, with more to come...

4 (edited by 2n2r5 2013-08-17 23:19:04)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

if you are looking at going with a new board then you should also check out the Azteeg X3. I have found more than one site that refers to it as RAMPs on Steroids. Also, Ian has already tested it out for you. http://www.soliforum.com/topic/377/upgr … azteeg-x3/


Don't get me wrong. I am using Ramps 1.4 and I love it. Just saying there are others to look in to also. smile

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

5 (edited by DigitalWhitewater 2013-08-18 00:02:14)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

Yes thank you. I did look at it. To me they are moreless the same same.
I've found some ramps kits and think ill head that way as I've gotten most of it priced out.
It is a worthy mention. I just think I don't know enough about andruino or programming where I would be able to see a difference between them.

Chances are though that I'll finish implementing the ramps and discover I want something else.
Ideally there would be a ARM port of stuff so I use my UDOO board when that comes. lol

SD2 w/ mods: Rumba controller, ATX PSU, SD pro case, glass bed, with more to come...

6

Re: Burnt out stepper question

I highly recommend getting the 8825 stepper driver with 1/32 microstepping here is a before and after, with the 8825 print on top -

http://solidoodletips.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/20130814_213031.jpg

7 (edited by DigitalWhitewater 2013-08-18 01:58:57)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

Wow that's a big difference in quality!

If I upgrade to the ramps board, I can just drop in these, correct?

SD2 w/ mods: Rumba controller, ATX PSU, SD pro case, glass bed, with more to come...

8 (edited by adrian 2013-08-18 03:25:02)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

IanJohnson wrote:

I highly recommend getting the 8825 stepper driver with 1/32 microstepping here is a before and after, with the 8825 print on top -

Glad this worked out Ian ; you seemed slightly dubious when I mentioned it to you in IRC a few weeks back smile

DigitalWhitewater wrote:

Wow that's a big difference in quality!
If I upgrade to the ramps board, I can just drop in these, correct?

Yes - but you really only want to do the extruder as 1/32... running the other axi' at 1/32 is tempting, but it actually has other complications with torque derating that you are best off avoiding by sticking to 1/16 on those torque-demanding axi. I have 1/16 A4988's on X,Y and Z, and a 1/32 on E0/E1 ...

Also be sure to get one of the md20b's if buying through Pololu, or be prepared to do some SMD rework with a 0603 and some Kynar wire wink

9

Re: Burnt out stepper question

Yes - but you really only want to do the extruder as 1/32... running the other axi' at 1/32 is tempting, but it actually has other complications with torque derating that you are best off avoiding by sticking to 1/16 on those torque-demanding axi. I have 1/16 A4988's on X,Y and Z, and a 1/32 on E0/E1 ...

Hello Adrian, so you don't recommend adding DRV8825 drivers on the X,Y, and Z? I just received my Ramps 1.4 kit with 4   DRV8825 drivers.

10

Re: Burnt out stepper question

When you get the moire tuned out, you might notice a faint vertical banding which I suspect has to do with the X and Y axis.  I would be curious to see if 1x32 microstepping smooths that out as well, or if it is more a function of toothed belts.

11 (edited by adrian 2013-09-10 10:40:18)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

innovate wrote:

Yes - but you really only want to do the extruder as 1/32... running the other axi' at 1/32 is tempting, but it actually has other complications with torque derating that you are best off avoiding by sticking to 1/16 on those torque-demanding axi. I have 1/16 A4988's on X,Y and Z, and a 1/32 on E0/E1 ...

Hello Adrian, so you don't recommend adding DRV8825 drivers on the X,Y, and Z? I just received my Ramps 1.4 kit with 4   DRV8825 drivers.

I wouldn't run out to get them to replace the A498X's , but if thats what you've got (4 x DRV8825) thats what you've got... However I would be ready to reconfigure the jumpers to downgrade them to 1/16 stepping if there is even the slightest sign of a missed step.

The long winded reason is:

1/32 microstepping gives you more 'positions' between full-steps (which are 1.8°), This INCREASES Resolution. Good! smile
1/32 microstepping with its increased 'Resolution' will actually DECREASE Accuracy. Bad!  - "Huh?" You say ?
                - Stepper motors have poor 'mid-step' accuracy. So Microstepping a 1.8° Stepper you don't actaully get 32  x 0.05626°, some of those might be 0.06° Steps, some might be 0.050°. Load Torque will also cause 'backlash' in the rotor of the stepper in microstepping, offsetting the rotor from its intended position until the torque is sufficent to actually move it where it was supposed to - having now missed several steps potentially...

1/32 microstepping decreases the Torque compared to 1/16..
               - At 1/16, you get ~10% of the "Full Step Holding Torque" of the stepper
               - At 1/32, you get ~5% of the "Full Step Holding Torque" of the stepper.

So whats this got to do with accuracy?
If the load torque plus the steppers friction torque is greater than the incremental torque of a microstep - additional  microsteps will need to occur until the accumulated torque exceeds the load torque plus the steppers friction torque. Basically, sending a microstep does not mean the motor will actually move! - BAD! sad  And if changing direction, a huge number of microsteps may be needed before movement in the correct direction occurs. - VERY BAD! sad

All of the above is *irrelevant* if you had say 423 Oz-In NEMA23's driving the axi' on the Solidoodle. But we don't. We instead have a Y-Axis being driven pretty hard, and an X-Axis already being run over-spec.  Reducing the Torque available to move the respective already at 'max' axi' is not a road I feel will lead you to paradise - Particularly in the X-Axis neutral

Anyway - give it a go.. but if you see missed steps or alignment issues - reduce the stepping to 1/16 and go from there.

12 (edited by innovate 2013-09-10 18:37:44)

Re: Burnt out stepper question

Sounds great Adrian I still have the 4 A498X's that came with my solidoodle. I am just going to switch 3 of the  A498X's drivers and use a  DRV8825 for the extruder. Thanks for the advice Adrian =]