26 Reply by yizhou.he (edited by yizhou.he 2017-12-14 16:24:10)

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

carl_m1968 wrote:

It depends on the quality of the scanner first and foremost. But the most time will be spent in post processing regardless of scanner used. Since the actual scanning is automatic and you can do other things during this time it does not really impact the overall time.

He mentioned "It required 5 scans to get most of the nooks and crannies", so I think there might be some special tricks like that can provide more data to help improve the overall quality for post processing. (we use similar tricks to improve image quality from con-focal microscope). Not that I need that kind of quality but it will be so cool to be able to do that.

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27 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

yizhou.he wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

It depends on the quality of the scanner first and foremost. But the most time will be spent in post processing regardless of scanner used. Since the actual scanning is automatic and you can do other things during this time it does not really impact the overall time.

He mentioned "It required 5 scans to get most of the nooks and crannies", so I think there might be some special tricks like that can provide more data to help improve the overall quality for post processing. (we use similar tricks to improve image quality from con-focal microscope). Not that I need that kind of quality but it will be so cool to be able to do that.


Again yes it took 5 scans but I assure you it took much longer at the actual computer for the post processing. I have a Matter and Form scanner myself and like I said regardless of scan passes that time to me is not considered in the over all process as I am working on other things while that is running.

If you do this as production then you charge both customers for the same amount of time even though it took less time to do one of the jobs since you did much of it while the other was scanning. Just like car dealership garages do. They do four cars in one hour but charge all four customers for one hour labor even though each car only took 15 minutes.

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28 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

carl_m1968 wrote:

Again yes it took 5 scans but I assure you it took much longer at the actual computer for the post processing. I have a Matter and Form scanner myself and like I said regardless of scan passes that time to me is not considered in the over all process as I am working on other things while that is running.

If you do this as production then you charge both customers for the same amount of time even though it took less time to do one of the jobs since you did much of it while the other was scanning. Just like car dealership garages do. They do four cars in one hour but charge all four customers for one hour labor even though each car only took 15 minutes.

So the scanning process itself is quite automatic, correct? That will be good news, assuming obtain high resolution scan takes long time. Sounds like post processing will be painful process, especially for newbies like me.

Anyway, thank you very much for the information, I might need to play with the post processing software before step into nightmares.

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29 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

carl_m1968 wrote:
yizhou.he wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:

It depends on the quality of the scanner first and foremost. But the most time will be spent in post processing regardless of scanner used. Since the actual scanning is automatic and you can do other things during this time it does not really impact the overall time.

He mentioned "It required 5 scans to get most of the nooks and crannies", so I think there might be some special tricks like that can provide more data to help improve the overall quality for post processing. (we use similar tricks to improve image quality from con-focal microscope). Not that I need that kind of quality but it will be so cool to be able to do that.


Again yes it took 5 scans but I assure you it took much longer at the actual computer for the post processing. I have a Matter and Form scanner myself and like I said regardless of scan passes that time to me is not considered in the over all process as I am working on other things while that is running.

If you do this as production then you charge both customers for the same amount of time even though it took less time to do one of the jobs since you did much of it while the other was scanning. Just like car dealership garages do. They do four cars in one hour but charge all four customers for one hour labor even though each car only took 15 minutes.

How do you like your Matter and Form scanner? Is it easy to use and produce high quality scan?

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30 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

I am not impressed with it. I in fact rarely use it as the scans require massive post processing I just don't have the time or patience for. It also seems to be limited on the size of an objects details. I only bought it because at was being sold for $150 as is parts. The only issue it had was a bad power switch.

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31 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Thank you very much for the information. I'm not confident on my post processing skill (if I had any). I guess I will stick with the Atlas 3D Scanner.

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32 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

yizhou.he wrote:

Wow! Now I really want a 3D scanner!

It took you a long time to scan the model. I have no idea which step take most of your time, need repeatedly scan the model to get better quality image or post scanning process or the scanning itself took long time. My scanning experience is limited to 2D scanning, just want to have some idea what I'm going to get myself into...

It really depends on the model you're scanning, and the resolution you're scanning it at.  The EinScan uses a turntable, so you place your model on the turntable and click scan.  It scans in 8 passes, turning the model 45° each time.  Once that's done, it take the software about 2-3 minutes to create the mesh, then it ask you if you are done, or wish to continue.  At this stage you can inspect the model, and see if anything needs work or not.

If it looks good as is, you can simply say done and it will let you save the mesh, or you can click continue, and you can re-position the model on the turntable and do another scan.  The idea is that you can re-position the model so the scanner can see areas that it couldn't see before.  Once the scan is done, the software will align the new scan to the old one and create a mesh that contains both the original mesh and the new one. 

Once again, it will ask you if you're done or you want to continue.  You can do this as many times as you want.

In my particular case, the horse was wider and taller than the maximum envelope of the scanner, so I literally had to scan it in quadrants, then I lid it down on its side so it can scan the underside and the top.  That's why I ended up with 6 separate scans.  If the model would have fit inside the envelope, I probably could have done it in 2-3 scans.

THere's a little work, but most of the "heavy lifting" is done by the software.

Once the scan is done, you may want to import it into some software to reduce the number of triangles, as the scanning software is capable of producing huge meshes (in excess of 15-20 million triangles, or 800MB or more), which translates into models that are nearly impossible to work with.  You can also "retouch" the mesh to remove stray bits and to either smooth out a surface or enhance detail.

In all, if you want something that looks good, there's some work that goes into it, but the final result can be worth it.

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33 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

carl_m1968 wrote:

Again yes it took 5 scans but I assure you it took much longer at the actual computer for the post processing.

Well, yes and no.  The Einscan produces really good scans to sart with, you can't even compare it to Matter & Form or the MakerBot or Atlas 3D.

IN the last image I posted, the only post scan work that was done was the on the horse, and that's it.  Nothing on the base, rider or shield.

On the horse, the only work I did was to smooth out the horse's body (rump, chest, belly and neck), and to add the head, which originally did not come out that good, so I scanned the head only.

The base being that it was also too long, it was scanned twice, in two halves.  The shield was scanned standing straight up, and the rider required like 3 scans, but none of these have any post scan retouching.

There are other posts around here of some of my Einscans, and if the model was small enough to fit the scanning envelope, it ended up being scanned twice, once standing up, and another laying down, and other than reducing the number of triangles in the mesh, most have not post work done.

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34 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

pirvan wrote:

It really depends on the model you're scanning, and the resolution you're scanning it at.  The EinScan uses a turntable, so you place your model on the turntable and click scan.  It scans in 8 passes, turning the model 45° each time.  Once that's done, it take the software about 2-3 minutes to create the mesh, then it ask you if you are done, or wish to continue.  At this stage you can inspect the model, and see if anything needs work or not.

If it looks good as is, you can simply say done and it will let you save the mesh, or you can click continue, and you can re-position the model on the turntable and do another scan.  The idea is that you can re-position the model so the scanner can see areas that it couldn't see before.  Once the scan is done, the software will align the new scan to the old one and create a mesh that contains both the original mesh and the new one. 

Once again, it will ask you if you're done or you want to continue.  You can do this as many times as you want.

In my particular case, the horse was wider and taller than the maximum envelope of the scanner, so I literally had to scan it in quadrants, then I lid it down on its side so it can scan the underside and the top.  That's why I ended up with 6 separate scans.  If the model would have fit inside the envelope, I probably could have done it in 2-3 scans.

THere's a little work, but most of the "heavy lifting" is done by the software.

Once the scan is done, you may want to import it into some software to reduce the number of triangles, as the scanning software is capable of producing huge meshes (in excess of 15-20 million triangles, or 800MB or more), which translates into models that are nearly impossible to work with.  You can also "retouch" the mesh to remove stray bits and to either smooth out a surface or enhance detail.

In all, if you want something that looks good, there's some work that goes into it, but the final result can be worth it.

Thank you very much for the information. I have lots of experience with photoshop but not 3d editing. The last step you describe in one sentence but I can imagine lots of skills and experience are involved. I guess I will have to see how far I can go before get frustrate and quit.

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35 Reply by pirvan (edited by pirvan 2017-12-15 22:11:26)

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Even though the model still needs a couple more parts to be scanned, I though I'd do a test print on a small scale.  While the model was made in 4 separate parts, horse, rider, base & shield, for this test I put them together.

The Form 1+ print envelope will let me print the model at about 70% of the original size, I think that a good size will be 50%, or roughly 1:20 scale.

For this miniature test, I scaled the model down to 30%, so it's about 1:30 scale. 

The model is solid (did not bother to hollow it out), and it's about 34ml in volume.  With the supports it's about 48ml.  The print came out near perfect, except for the shield.  I keep forgetting the laws of scaling.  While the shield is perfectly fine for the scale it was originally designed for, when reduced to 30%, it's paper thin, near transparent, and the bottom of it ripped during print.

Here are a couple of photos of the model still on its supports, and next to the original, to give you a sense of the scale.

http://soliforum.com/i/?9Cn6wfV.jpg

http://soliforum.com/i/?9hQzkcM.jpg

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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36 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Last night I thought I'd have some fun, so I started painting the miniature.  It's not finished, but I wanted to see what the horse will look like, so here is a quick and dirty pain job (if 2 hours can be called quick).

http://soliforum.com/i/?m74w0PV.jpg

The rider, base and the horse's reigns steel need to be painted, but this gives me a good idea of what the colors I need to use.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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...and too much time on my hands.

37 Reply by yizhou.he

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Could not tell this is unfinished without read your text. I thought the title is THE DARK KNIGHT. Very impressive!

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38 Reply by AZERATE

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Great work as always, pirvan

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39 Reply by pirvan (edited by pirvan 2017-12-23 19:14:55)

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

I though I would post a quick preview of the print that I'm donating for the Christmas Raffle.  I finished printing the rider and horse, and the base is printing as I'm writing this.  The small accessories, horse's harness, shield and sword will be printed last.

http://soliforum.com/i/?h1xRF5h.jpg

BTW, this model is 60% the size of the original, the horse by itself is about 4" tall and 5.75" long

And here is what it looks like with the support removed, and side by side with the original, and the miniature I printed before.

http://soliforum.com/i/?64rCt5d.jpg

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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40 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

And here is the final model that some lucky winner of the Christmas giveaway will receive. 

It will be sent out as a kit, with the base, horse, rider, shield and sword separate.  This should make finishing and painting easier.

http://soliforum.com/i/?haCmQBZ.jpg

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

41 Reply by TheBaron

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Was that done on the Form 1+? it looks great.

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42 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Yes, a Form 1+

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43 Reply by scobo (edited by scobo 2018-09-15 16:58:37)

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Very nice pirvan !
I also have an Einscan-S and have to admit that an FDM printer doesn't really do the scans justice compared to a resin printer.
The Einscan picks out an amazing amount of detail that requires a higher print resolution than FDM offers.
I'm currently looking into resin printers now that they've come down in price.
This was a scan of a running shoe I did .....

https://s19.postimg.cc/tt2fatef7/shoe1.jpg


And this is it printed in PLA measuring about an inch from front to back ......

https://s19.postimg.cc/ith7z5b4j/IMG_0664.jpg

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44 Reply by dustin.schroeder24

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

pirvan wrote:

And here is the final model that some lucky winner of the Christmas giveaway will receive. 

It will be sent out as a kit, with the base, horse, rider, shield and sword separate.  This should make finishing and painting easier.

http://soliforum.com/i/?haCmQBZ.jpg

Do you have this. Stl for sale anywhere? I would love to get my hands on this. Huge death dealer fan and this looks amazing

45 Reply by dubbsd

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

Pirvan are you air brushing your models or hand painting. I am trying to figure out weather I want to buy an airbrush (never used one) most of my prints are single color.

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46 Reply by pirvan

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Re: New Scan - Death Dealer by Frazetta

dubbsd wrote:

Pirvan are you air brushing your models or hand painting. I am trying to figure out weather I want to buy an airbrush (never used one) most of my prints are single color.

It's been a long time since I've been on this forum, you know with Covid and all.

Anyway, to answer your question, a bit if both, depends on the size.  For small miniatures I usually use a rattle can for the primer, then I airbrush the base colors and some shading, then finish it by hand with a variety of brushes.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.