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Topic: Why printer works this way ?

When i start printer without resin i notice that it turns LCD on (projection) before bed is completely lowered.
It does it on every layer.
Is that suppose to be that way ?
I expected it to start projection right after bed is lowered, not while its on its way down.
I would say starts to project about 1-2 seconds before platform is down.

I also keep getting model partially brake off.
About 3mm is on the bed and rest is in the VAT.
Could that be layer adhesion problem ?
Its at 8 seconds and 30 seconds for first 5 layers.
About 10-15 layers are ok and then it just brakes off.

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Re: Why printer works this way ?

Your first layer between 3 to 5 should be at minimum 40 seconds each. They need to be as hard as possible and cured as deep as possible to assure a good foundation to the bed.  The rest of your layers can be lower depending on the resin. As for as the projection is it actually projecting or just turning on the UV? I believe it turns on the UV a second or two before projecting a layer to allow the light to stabilize.

The calibration plate that nanoDLP has is only for cure time for the remaining layers excluding the foundation layers. If you don't mind, post the model you are trying to print. I have Wanhao Black loaded in mine right now and I could try it. I also have sanded my platform however so I have yet to have any adhesion problem.

Another issue on adhesion is orientation of the model. You want to orient on the build plat so it has a good first few layers but the the remaining layers present the smallest possible cross-section as possible. Ideally you want the base layers to be the largest cross section and the the remaining layers to be less of a cross section.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Why printer works this way ?

Like i said, i get 10-15 layers attached on the bed. The rest brakeing off.
So no problem with 1st 3-5 layers there.

I had sanded my wanhao too.
Model name BeltClampCoverR1.STL
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:550788/#files
Prints in the orientation provided.

4 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-04-16 01:17:40)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

Like i said, i get 10-15 layers attached on the bed. The rest brakeing off.
So no problem with 1st 3-5 layers there.

I had sanded my wanhao too.
Model name BeltClampCoverR1.STL
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:550788/#files
Prints in the orientation provided.


I am printing it now on my D7. i will let you know what happens.

Just for the record I use build 1827 for nanoDLP and the Creative Workshop to orient and setup the model that was made for the D7 with the corrected settings on the wiki.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

5

Re: Why printer works this way ?

i have D7 plus. integrated nanodlp and lcd controller on the front.
Also using same slicer.
I simply put the model in the program and slice it with these settings.
http://soliforum.com/i/?zEmFD0S.jpg

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Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

i have D7 plus. integrated nanodlp and lcd controller on the front.
Also using same slicer.
I simply put the model in the program and slice it with these settings.
http://soliforum.com/i/?zEmFD0S.jpg


If you have nanoDLP integrated then it will also slice the model based on it's settings when you add it as a plate. Unless you are printing straight from CW. I log into nanoDLP through my web browser  and use it to control the printer. The only thing I do with CW is orient the model, add a base or supports, then save it to an STL so that I can load that STL into nanoDLP as a plate. I have the 1.4 model that does not have an LCD display.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7 (edited by tonycstech 2018-04-16 02:39:08)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

I dont use nanoDLP. Its a web based interface and i dont like it.
i print from USB drive.
I save scene files CWS and print it from USB drive.
I am not sure what you mean by a "plate"
I printed allot with filament and still do. Resin printing is new to me.

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Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

I dont use nanoDLP. Its a web based interface and i dont like it.
i print from USB drive.
I save scene files CWS and print it from USB drive.
I am not sure what you mean by a "plate"
I printed allot with filament and still do. Resin printing is new to me.


If you don't use nanodlp then you won't know what a plate is. So never mind. I will say that nanoDLP gives you much more control of the printer than the settings in CW do. You can even set the time it waits between movement of the platform. But I guess it boils down to whatever you learn to use the printer with, it tends to stick with you. The 1.4 does not have an internal controller or SDcard capability so that would be my reason for using nanoDLP.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

9

Re: Why printer works this way ?

How is print going ?
I increased regular  layer time to 10 seconds and it still failed.

The only thing i was actually able to print was the owl i got from thingyverse scaled down 10%.

10 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-04-16 03:28:59)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

How is print going ?
I increased regular  layer time to 10 seconds and it still failed.

The only thing i was actually able to print was the owl i got from thingyverse scaled down 10%.


I am 37mm of 57mm and so far it is still printing fine.

My cure time 22 seconds for four bottom layers and 6 seconds for each layer afterwards.

I am going to bed for now as it will not be done until an estimated 23:14 my time which it is now 22:27 and I don't stay up that late before a work day. I'll let you know how it did an d take a picture when I get home tomorrow.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

11 (edited by tonycstech 2018-04-16 05:06:21)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

I dont understand why it starts projecting before touchdown on every layer. It starts as soon as the platform starts to go back down after lift.

Also is there any way to configure CW to display platfor rotated 90degrees ? It does not match the orientation of the print facing me.

This is what i get. Layer dont even look even. They look like they get suction cup effect and just get pulled out.
I put them for 10 secoinds cure time and thats what i get.
http://soliforum.com/i/?PenYLGd.jpg
I print at 100 to save time.

I noticed another strange behavior.
I removed VAT to look at when it projects, and i see its projecting when it lifts of.
It makes no sense.
Either firmware does not understand the gcode or slicer is not writing correct gcode

12 (edited by carl_m1968 2018-04-16 21:45:38)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

I used the CW from the wiki that is preset for the D7. It has boxes X and Y under image reflection checked. That may solve your orientation issue.

Are you setting CW to add a base to the model for adhesion? If so you need to have the model sunk into it by a few layers and then when the print is complete an cured you will have to cut and sand it down.

Or you need to print the model directly to the platform with build platform with no adhesion aids.

It looks like your print is separating after the base is printed. This leads me to think you raised your model x height and then created a base with same X height.

In your CW screen shot your curing times are way off. Your bottom exposure is set for 4000 ms that is only 4 seconds. It should be around 20 seconds or so which would be 20000. Your exposure time for other layers is also wrong. You have it set to 10 that is not seconds, but ms. So you are only curing for .01 seconds on your other layers. If you want 10 seconds then it needs to be set to 10000. Remember the setting is expecting ms as in microseconds not seconds. So you have to multiple times 1000 for seconds.

In summary bottom layers need long exposure of around 20 seconds or 20000 ms.
Other layers need exposure time of around 6 seconds or 6000 ms.

Your model in question should take around 3+ hours to complete.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

13

Re: Why printer works this way ?

Well I can assure you the file is fine. Here is the finished print I started last night.

http://soliforum.com/i/?JESE0Bw.jpg

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

14

Re: Why printer works this way ?

Thanks for the try.

I need some clarification on slicer settings.
Lift and Sequence Time (ms) [Auto Calc]
That value stands for time it takes for platform to lift and lower or not just that ?

My confusion here is that when exposure time is 8000 and bottom layers are 30000, what would be good lift&sequence timing and why?
And why changing exposure time effects sequence time. How are they connected ?

Also i dont see any change when i play with:
Z Lift speed
Z Bottom Speed (what is that ?)
Z Retract Speed (what is that ?)

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Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

Thanks for the try.

I need some clarification on slicer settings.
Lift and Sequence Time (ms) [Auto Calc]
That value stands for time it takes for platform to lift and lower or not just that ?

My confusion here is that when exposure time is 8000 and bottom layers are 30000, what would be good lift&sequence timing and why?
And why changing exposure time effects sequence time. How are they connected ?

Also i dont see any change when i play with:
Z Lift speed
Z Bottom Speed (what is that ?)
Z Retract Speed (what is that ?)


The settings should just be left alone. They are default and best for the printer as is. If you ever use NanoDLP then you will want to play with those and they are more clear and explained there. The only settings you should change in CW are your exposure times and bottom layer times.

But to explain the Z bottom is the homing speed at which it moves to the bottom of the tank. Only relevant during the initial home. Z lift speed is the same only in the other direction and only relevant for manual moves. Retract speed is just that, the speed at which the printer peels the layer from the film. It needs to be slow to avoid separation.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

16 (edited by tonycstech 2018-04-27 08:26:47)

Re: Why printer works this way ?

I cant leave settings alone.
When i do dry print (no vat) to observe how what setting effects the print, i am confused about the need for sequencing.
Why doesn't it just print one layer at the time ? Why does there have to be some timing involved between layers ?

What i mean is:
Why wont it submerge the build plate
wait exposure time
Lift
Repeat
Seems to me 3 simple steps, yet its so complicated to figure it out.
Who ever designed this had smoked pot too much i think because from what i understand, its not writing the code with "one step at the time" method, but rather "depending on how long steps take".

That creates a ton of problems.
Sequencing is now required to be calculated based on the machine because each machine takes its own time to move up/down depending on the speed.
I am also not sure why speed values seem to be ignored. Perhaps i didnt crank them up high enough ?

17

Re: Why printer works this way ?

tonycstech wrote:

I cant leave settings alone.
When i do dry print (no vat) to observe how what setting effects the print, i am confused about the need for sequencing.
Why doesn't it just print one layer at the time ? Why does there have to be some timing involved between layers ?

What i mean is:
Why wont it submerge the build plate
wait exposure time
Lift
Repeat
Seems to me 3 simple steps, yet its so complicated to figure it out.
Who ever designed this had smoked pot too much i think because from what i understand, its not writing the code with "one step at the time" method, but rather "depending on how long steps take".

That creates a ton of problems.
Sequencing is now required to be calculated based on the machine because each machine takes its own time to move up/down depending on the speed.
I am also not sure why speed values seem to be ignored. Perhaps i didnt crank them up high enough ?

You are not taking into account the fluid dynamics of the resin. It is like syrup or honey and does not flow or move as fast as water. So when the plate rises between layers there is a void in the amount of resin where the plate was. It has to allow time for that area to refill with resin before the plate comes down again to assure there is proper amount of resin. There is also a settling time to make sure that air bubble that might be trapped under the plate are pressed out as well. You are dealing with honey here,  not water so you have to give it time to move.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

18

Re: Why printer works this way ?

I finally figured it out.
I hope this video will help everyone else understand my findings.