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Topic: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

I'm looking into buying the xyz 1 single nozzle for the price of 399, at first i was settle with the AIO for 649. But after a few reviews
i have decide to go with a different route. So im here asking everyone if you could start over with 400-700 what system would you buy?

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

well if I did it a year or so later Id be waiting for a Solidoodle Apprentice still likely LOL. but now 6 months after it was announced there are many good choices so ?

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

Actually, if I knew everything I've since learned by hacking my solidoodle 2, I'd probably build my own delta style printer (but I doubt I could have done it successfully without having the sd2 for a while - heck, I might not be successful if I tried now, but at least I'd be a lot more confident :-).

4 (edited by Leghk 2015-02-01 02:06:12)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

I would absolutely go with the Davinci again, after experience with a Cupcake, Prusa, SeeMeCNC H1 and SD3 before it. I don't know any other printer with comparable features at a similar cost, even if you add in a license of Simplify3d and a cartridge resetter.

This is not to say other printers don't beat it out - some do, hands down, but at significantly higher prices.

Don: Folger Tech 2020 Kossel Rev A + Borosilicate + Snow Effector
        Davinci 1.0 + Repetier : Filastruder
        SD3 + RAMPS + Lawsy Carriages + E3D + Borosilicate + ... : Cupcake

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

Have a Davinci 1.0 and just bought a Davinci 2.0 for more printing fun.  Bang for buck they kick butt.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

any time you can get into 3D printing for under $500 thats best way to get your feet wet and learn what works best for your needs. then 'upgrade' later. just like buying a small B&W TV cheap then go bigger and Color next time. after watching some shows hehe

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

Although I will not send another dime to Solidoodle, if I were to go back in time I think I would still buy SD for my first.  Yes, they are slow, their QC is MIA, and the printer is flimsy, but it was cheap and I learned a lot getting it to work (still am).  I see SD as a "kit that comes with the parts in their assembled position."  If you need plug and play - you'll have to spend some more bucks.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

You can get a Prusa i3 for $350. if you can assemble that, why anything else?

Solidoodle 4

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

Re:Prusa i3: I don't care for the fact that the bed moves on the Y axis.  I think it is better to keep the model as still as possible - especially for higher speeds.  Also, although this is easily enough added for any model I suppose, I like having the enclosure.

10 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-01 17:14:59)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

TickTock wrote:

Re:Prusa i3: I don't care for the fact that the bed moves on the Y axis.  I think it is better to keep the model as still as possible - especially for higher speeds.

I don't really get what the issue is there. Does it change how well the butter is applied to the bread if you apply butter on your bread by moving the knife on the bread, or moving the bread on the knife instead?
I think if that was an issue so many printers wouldn't have the bed moving in the Y axis instead of the extruder.

Also, although this is easily enough added for any model I suppose, I like having the enclosure.

Most people just end up replacing their stock enclosures with transparent acrylic ones or similar anyway. It's cheap and easy to make.
But if you don't like making your own, you definitely won't want a 3d printer kit.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

redbarret wrote:
TickTock wrote:

Re:Prusa i3: I don't care for the fact that the bed moves on the Y axis.  I think it is better to keep the model as still as possible - especially for higher speeds.

I don't really get what the issue is there. Does it change how well the butter is applied to the bread if you apply butter on your bread by moving the knife on the bread, or moving the bread on the knife instead?
I think if that was an issue so many printers wouldn't have the bed moving in the Y axis instead of the extruder.

For prints that aren't very tall, I agree with this.  However, as the print gets taller, I'm with TickTock. 

My take on it is that it won't be so much of an issue with quality, as it will affect how well a print sticks to the bed for certain objects.  Imagine a tall, "top heavy" object, for example.  I'm thinking that by printing fast, along with abrupt direction changes, would put more strain on bed adhesion, which can already be an issue with a "stationary" bed.

SD Press
Modeling software: 123D Design

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

I get the logic of that, but I'm not sure I agree it would be an issue with 99% of models.
I can only imagine it being an issue with pretty tall *and* pretty thin object and even then I'm not really sure the heatbed wiggling that tall object will cause more force than the force I need to break the damn thing off the hairsprayed and heated glass print bed. Unless we're talking about other kinds of beds in which case I have no idea about those.

Solidoodle 4

13 (edited by jagowilson 2015-02-01 19:31:36)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

If the movement of the bed is enough to break the object free chances are the adhesion was poor to begin with. I've seen all kinds of models printed on robo3d/prusa style printers and what you're all discussing really is a non issue with a level platform and appropriate nozzle-to-bed distance. The bot will skip long before your object is knocked off the bed, if your adhesion is good enough.

Will you print PLA on blue painters tape at high speed with no heated platform on a machine like this? Probably not. But ABS, hairspray and a heated platform bond so strongly that it simply isn't a problem. People who have lost glass over a print that stuck too well know exactly what I mean.

What parts move to complete the build doesn't matter. What matters is mechanical rigidity and good adhesion. An advantage of machines that move the bed instead of the entire X/Y gantry is they can achieve mechanical precision at a far lower cost than the traditional Core XY/Ultimkaker style machines because the Y axis is just as simple as the X axis.

14 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-01 19:29:39)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

jagowilson wrote:

People who have lost glass over a print that stuck too well know exactly what I mean.

Yeah, that's happened to me. Was rather surprised, as I had lifting on the edges of the print too at the same time as the middle being "superglued" in place (15cm wide print).

Solidoodle 4

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

That is a tough question. I decided to jump in with a used SD$ . I have been looking for a deal on a flash forge. And I have been eyeing some of the delta kits.
There are a fair amount of choices in the price range you mention.
Prusa I3 kit
Kossel Delta kit
the solidoodle press or solidoodle SD4
Asterid plastic scribble 
Possibly a used wood box flashforge
prinbotot simple metal.

Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

khoabui05 wrote:

So im here asking everyone if you could start over with 400-700 what system would you buy?

I would wait longer and save up some more money to buy a lulzbot taz4 or kittaz.  Considering that my SD2 is now printing great but has virtually no stock parts on it, I'm sure I'm close to the cost of a taz4 anyway and I don't have the large build area of the taz4.

I would have rather spent the money up front and gotten a well built machine the first time around.  I've enjoyed modding it but I could have spent time focusing on other, higher return mods like dual extruders if I had a taz4.  Just my 2 cents.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

17 (edited by TickTock 2015-02-02 15:16:02)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

redbarret wrote:
jagowilson wrote:

People who have lost glass over a print that stuck too well know exactly what I mean.

Yeah, that's happened to me. Was rather surprised, as I had lifting on the edges of the print too at the same time as the middle being "superglued" in place (15cm wide print).

Same here.  I've thrown away two glass plates so far due to too many chips of glass missing from both sides (I use one until is becomes unuseable, flip it over and continue using until that side has too many chips, then toss it).  I've found I actually have better luck removing the part *while the bed is hot* - contrary to popular knowledge that letting it cool and pop off on its own is best.  Alcohol is helpful removing the glass chip from the part - doesn't seem to affect ABS but does dissolve hairspray.

Back on topic.  I do not know from experience but at high print speeds, I cannot imagine there *not* being vibrations at the top of a tall print impacting quality for a moving bed topology.  Do you just slow down on perimeters so the total print time is not impacted much or does the vibration I am imagining really not exist at speed (>60mm/s)?  For simple, less intricate, things with smooth features like vases I don't imagine it would be a problem either.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

redbarret wrote:

I don't really get what the issue is there. Does it change how well the butter is applied to the bread if you apply butter on your bread by moving the knife on the bread, or moving the bread on the knife instead?

I think the main issue is actually that the bread is a heck of a lot heavier than the knife :-). You can butter faster by moving the knife.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

The simplicity of a moving bed is a big benefit.  I spent a lot of time trying to get rid of Y backlash on the SD and never completely succeeded.  My Ordbot has a sliding bed, and there is no backlash, since it is direct drive, just like the X.  I usually run outer perimeters slower than the rest of the print since that is the only place where speed/acceleration artifacts will be visible.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

I would go SLA instead of FDM.  Out of your budget range but I would pick up a Form 1.  I got the chance to play around with one and they are very impressive. The detail you can create will blow your mind...

FDM tech just has limitations that will always have users seeking more.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

21 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-02 18:48:40)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

TickTock wrote:

I cannot imagine there *not* being vibrations at the top of a tall print impacting quality for a moving bed topology.

if you want to test this, just print a very thin and tall model on your glass bed and then shake the glass with your hand. Does it bend or pop off? if not, then there you go.

Claghorn wrote:

You can butter faster by moving the knife.

Hehe. It seems like it at first, and seems very counter-intuitive, but once you think about it it's actually not the case and is easier to set up (the moving bed, not bread tongue ).

DePartedPrinter wrote:

I would go SLA instead of FDM.  Out of your budget range but I would pick up a Form 1.  I got the chance to play around with one and they are very impressive. The detail you can create will blow your mind...

If the resin prices drop one day and build areas increase SLA will become more popular, until then I don't see it as a practical alternative for many users even if the cost of the printer itself is lowered.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

redbarret wrote:
DePartedPrinter wrote:

I would go SLA instead of FDM.  Out of your budget range but I would pick up a Form 1.  I got the chance to play around with one and they are very impressive. The detail you can create will blow your mind...

If the resin prices drop one day and build areas increase SLA will become more popular, until then I don't see it as a practical alternative for many users.


I think most people just want to go on thingiverse, find some object, click print and expect this perfect representation to be created. FDM doesn't come close to a perfect representation.

I think peoples expectations for FDM are way to high and I think people would be happier with SLA over FDM because of this.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

23 (edited by redbarret 2015-02-02 19:57:24)

Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

I'd definitely think of getting one if I could make my own resin.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

redbarret wrote:
TickTock wrote:

I cannot imagine there *not* being vibrations at the top of a tall print impacting quality for a moving bed topology.

if you want to test this, just print a very thin and tall model on your glass bed and then shake the glass with your hand. Does it bend or pop off? if not, then there you go.

I don't think it's that simple.  Vibrations much smaller than I can see (and certainly much smaller than that required to detach the model) will result in unacceptable print quality.  That said, I acknowledge that it can't be that bad since so many are having good success with this topology.

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Re: If you could restart your investment which Printer would you buy?

TickTock wrote:

Vibrations much smaller than I can see...will result in unacceptable print quality.

Just out of curiosity, why?
Forgive my lack of basic knowledge on this.

Solidoodle 4