Topic: Extruder Heater Failure
14 hours into a 15 hour print, the extruder heater suddenly went crazy. See attached graph. The printout is, of course, ruined.
Any thoughts about how to diagnose/repair this?
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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Solidoodle Discussion → Extruder Heater Failure
14 hours into a 15 hour print, the extruder heater suddenly went crazy. See attached graph. The printout is, of course, ruined.
Any thoughts about how to diagnose/repair this?
Are you sure it is your heater and not your thermistor? Seems like there have been lots of thermistor problems here recently.
The green graph at the bottom is power. If it was the connector to the heater, I would think that power would stay on full while the temp fluctuates, but it seems like the temp drops are caused by it cutting power. If the thermistor was coming loose from the nozzle it would read reduced temperatures which would send the heat up rather than down. If the thermistor was intermittently losing connection I would think that every power drop would be to zero. Still, that seems most likely. Were there any MINTEMP errors in the log?
When I was having intermittently failing thermistor readings, it acted exactly like this. It would drop to readings of 170 then go back to where it was then go to 140 and back and so on getting progressively worse. I still use pronterface since it runs better on my old acer netbook though. I sometimes got mintemp warnings and sometimes didn't. Replacing the wires only solved it for me. However, none of this means its not the heater. Just an easy thing to check and eliminate as the cause.
Were there any MINTEMP errors in the log?
Good catch! I see a lot of "cold extrusion prevented" in the log!
The wiring seems solid just by looking at everything from the outside. Nothing obviously loose.
Replacing the wires only solved it for me.
There was a wiring problem between the thermistor connector and the thermistor?
Yes the problem was the wires between the board and the thermistor... The long ones in the wire bundle. I replaced these and my problem was solved. The thermistor itself and the connectors were fine.
The green graph at the bottom is power.
I reset the printer and tried to heat up the extruder again. Now I see lots of power used, but no change in temperature (either on the graph or by touching it with my finger bones). I've never understood all of the lines and colors on the RH graphs. If the green is power, then it is trying to send lots of power to the extruder, but none is getting there. I guess I'm about to disassemble the hot end, eh? Any words of advice?
Is there some trick to pulling the white connector out of the red (for extruder power)? I don't like using brutality as my first approach.
Is there some trick to pulling the white connector out of the red
Yes. You have to hold the little clip out of the way, with your thumbnail.
Even so, it takes a little wiggling and pulling.
(If I remember right, the clip pulls down just a bit, and releases the white connector.)
Thanks. Not sure what "the little clip" is, or "out of the way". Pull something away from the connector to release the white part?
There should be a clip on the connector itself that holds the connector together. You have to get the clip out of the way to pull the connector apart
It seems clear that the wiring harness has failed (continuity check failed). No idea how to fix this, easily (this wire pair goes through the cable bundle that goes between the controller and the extruder. Also no idea exactly where the wire failed. Also no idea exactly what connectors are used, where to obtain them, etc.
The connectors I would imagine would be fine. Or at most the connector on the extruder side, but I doubt that. The board side see's almost no movement, so again most likely fine. If the wire has failed it is most likely at the point with the largest kink in the loom. So something like all the way left at the back, on my SD it kinks the loom very harshly near the Extruder Motor heatsink & fan at that position. If you are going to get a dry joint, it is most likely going to be there.
I would cut both connectors with about 1 inch of spare cable, strip yourself of exposed 4mm of wire. Check for continuity between the connectors and freshly stripped end. If they are fine, get some heat shrink, new wire, solder and replace the mid section. Test to see if it works, then either cable tie it to the existing loom, or fight your way through the conduit like stuff. (I'm a little lazy and just cable tied my G-Code Fan wires to the loom)
If the connectors gone, I would imagine something similar to these would do the trick RC 2.54mm connectors
Ian or the others may have different advice.
It is not that hard, just remove all power sources, unplug the connections going through the ambilical (the board is labeled and tells you were to plug stuff in so it is easy to rewire) There should just be 2 wires for the extruder heater core and you can just inspect it for breaks visually and with the VM and replace that broken area, solder, and heatshrink or ideally replace the entire wire all the way to the connector with something like I suggested (high-temp high-flex CNC wire). To get the tubing off easily just compress it and the wires should come out easily
you can just inspect it for breaks visually
Depends if the insulation is fine, and it is a dry joint within the wire. Bit more piggish to find.
Hey All,
After about 8Kg of filament, and over 500 prints, I'm getting MAXTEMP, MINTEMP, and cold extrusion errors. About a month ago, i had an issue with the heater lines, found the intermittent spot - right at the kink/flex point where the wire meets the extruder assembly, stripped, soldered and shrunk some shrink tube on. I was good to go for a month.
Now I am getting those above errors, the printer is asking to be reset, and I can manually move the wiring bundle around and get the various errors.
I haven't seen any errors pertaining to the extruder motor, so I guess I'm ok there.
Here's my questions:
1) would a cable-chain kinda thing be any better than the woven tube?
2) would feeding the wiring from above - to the center of the print area put less stress on the whole wiring harness? If I am going to have to take the whole harness apart and replace some wire, it's not that big a step to re-route the harness over the top, rather than through the hole in the back of the case.
3) could there be any troubles with changing up the connectors? I was thinking of going to something like the old-school connectors found on PC hard-drives or some other connector.
4) would a "guide" of sorts help? perhaps something that would help prevent the wiring from taking too tight a bend?
I am going to ask for SD to send out a replacement harness, with the hopes it'll get here in time for me to print out 3 things for the upcoming SoliDoodle event in NYC...
one can hope...
I imagine that engineering cables that flex is a solved engineering problem. I also imagine that the SD approach is adequate for the short term, but perhaps not adequate for long term and heavy use.
I wonder if using a ribbon cable would improve things. It might not be easy to bend in all directions, however.
Coming in from the top center would be a good idea, but would you need to make some conical/pyramidical structure to serve as the cable's origin? How would that interact with the desire to enclose the printer? I am imagining a coil of wires, spring shaped, so that each part of the wire flexed minimally.
Ink jet printers use flexible cables, but they only flex in one direction (back and forth along one axis).
You could buy a pack of Pololu jumper wires and just replace the wires as needed. It would not be very difficult or expensive. Or maybe someone will start making and selling complete wire bundles to swap in quickly and easily.
This should be an interesting discussion.
I did some digging around the house through all the myriad of wires I have floating around. (I install and maintain sound and video systems around NYC tri-state area)
So far the best thing I found is some really soft and flexible STRANDED Cat5 cable. The stuff used for many pre-made Ethernet cables.
I'll probably use 2 twisted pairs per line for the hot-end power lines, and 1 twisted pair per line for the temp sensor.
While I'm at it, I am also going to use the final twisted pair for fan power. I won't keep the pairs in the outer jacket though... as flexible as it is, it's even more flexible without the outer jacket.
Since I am going all out with it, I have been thinking about mounting a small camera on the extruder assy. I think it'd be cool to get that close a view of prints in action, for the video for my upcoming kickstarter campaign. Then again, I do think I am just asking for trouble putting even more wire into the harness...
But this is a project for later on tonight. Right now, I have to drive for 2 hours to get a laser cutter.
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