1 (edited by pirvan 2014-02-18 05:00:26)

Topic: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

This is a question probably best answered by guys like Filatruder or those that have been dabbling in making filament.

Does the color dye or pigment affect the softness of the plastic filament?

I have now used ABS filament from a variety of companies, but one thing I've noticed is that certain colors of filament are harder and more resistant to acetone than others.  Even with filament from the same company, this seems to hold true.

Here is an example:  I've been printing some chess pieces in both orange and blue ABS from JustPLA (yeah I know the name is weird considering they also sell ABS).

The orange parts seem to be "harder", the plastic is more rigid and it "feels"... for a lack of a better description, less "oily".  While I can use acrylic cement to glue the pieces together (this stuff is so strong, it will melt anything), basic acetone doesn't seem to have any effect on it.  I usually use a brush dipped in acetone to smooth out certain surfaces, but it doesn't work on this. I even tried to glue a couple of pieces using acetone, and after putting a huge amount of acetone on it it appeared to glue them together but it came apart after a few minutes.

On the other hand, the blue has a "softer, oily" feeling, and the same acetone I used on the orange, burns this stuff almost instantly.

So far I'm finding that blue and red are the softer colors, while orange, fluorescent green and white are the harder ones.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?

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2

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

The carrier for the pigment can be ABS, or it can be "universal" masterbatch which is not ABS, but some other plastic that is compatible with a range of materials including ABS.   Darker colors might need a higher concentration of masterbatch, giving them a higher proportion of non-abs plastic.  There might be other additives as well  meant to change other characteristics of the plastic.

3

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

Good question Pirvan; I've been wondering something similar myself: 

I have three spools of ABS from the same supplier - black, red, and white.  The black filament is fantastic, and I get excellent prints from it; no warping, it sticks well to the bed, and flows very consistently giving very smooth and even prints.  The red is very good, but comes out more pinkish, and has occasional problems with warping and sticking.  The white is fair to poor:  doesn't stick as well (I occasionally have to use a glue stick), is prone to warping as it cools, exhibits noticeable banding, and although the raw dimension is fairly constant doesn't extrude consistently - I'm frequently adjusting the extrusion multiplier in the filament profile of Slic3r.  (I do have a slightly different Slic3r profile for each color)

I'm thinking that whatever colorant was used, has some effect on the thermal properties of the ABS during printing...and as you suggest, may also affect the final hardness of the completed print.

4 (edited by Antron007 2014-02-26 02:34:55)

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

Darker colors are naturally going to absorb more light and heat than lighter colors. Brighter colors will cool slightly faster than darker ones because of this. That's not just for filament, that's for everything.  I'd guess turning the bed temp up a little when printing with the lighter colors might help prevent the curling. I've got no ideas in regards to hardness and acetone resistance.

5 (edited by Tomek 2014-02-26 06:02:36)

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

Ok, Atron, I would caution against applying your logic to our case.

The emissivity of an object is often related to color, but a couple things (1) Darker object will cool actually *faster* than a light object. The confusion lies in that a darker object in sunlight might cool slower, because it's being heated by the sun.  Objects emit and absorb light. This is usually fairly close in value, exceptions arise that have very different emissivities vs absorption. 

Moreover, I doubt radiation is the dominant factor in our system. It might be substantially meaningful, because we are talking about 230C, but it is not likely to be dominant for at least part of the cooling. However I am speculating without looking at the numbers whether radiation matters much at 230 celsius.  This is based on my limited experience, and not expert knowledge

As a whole this thread is totally pertinent and I wish I knew more to contribute. Colorants and plastic mixes are likely to matter a lot. Remember ABS is a not entirely standardized mix of plastic and (though likely not within manufacturers, merely between) they are likely to have subtlety different mixes of plastic. I feel like by the time I print a few prints on a roll though I can tell I need to up a few degrees or go down a few degrees on the temp, since the plastic seems slightly different. this is not a science though I wish I could do it more effectively.


Also, there are some rare brands are *absolutely* not plain ABS. Afinia filament, for example, prints well at 260celsius. This is HOT, compared to most brands. I had trouble vapor smoothing a gnome I printed with that filament, and I speculated that maybe it's ABS-PC, merely because the plastic wasn't melting well in acetone and 260C would be reasonable for a ABS-PC mix.  *speculating.*   Overall i loved the afinia brand but it was too expensive ($50/700g) for me to use much.

6

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

Just for the record I find the lighter colours easier and better to print with.

7

Re: Color Pigment/dye affect plastic softness?

Tomek wrote:

<snip>ABS is a not entirely standardized mix of plastic and (though likely not within manufacturers, merely between) they are likely to have subtlety different mixes of plastic. I feel like by the time I print a few prints on a roll though I can tell I need to up a few degrees or go down a few degrees on the temp, since the plastic seems slightly different. this is not a science though I wish I could do it more effectively. <snip>

What do you look for in a print to determine the temperature adjustment? -- ggunners

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