Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament
You're welcome here!
I might have a space or two left in the beta program - I'll go over my inventory. Shoot me an email so I don't lose track of you - [email protected].
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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Filastruder → Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament
You're welcome here!
I might have a space or two left in the beta program - I'll go over my inventory. Shoot me an email so I don't lose track of you - [email protected].
DePartedPrinter wrote:This is what it looks like now mixed pre extrusion.
It's crazy to me that so little colorant is enough to make the results you posted earlier!
How much clear ABS do you have? I'm interested in some...
When I use ABS colorant I use about twice as much and it produces very consistent filament. I have to cut the ratio down for HDPE which is why I need a better way to evenly distribute colorant. I am confident there is a combination/technique that will work for the HDPE colorant but its going to take some time to dial in.
And I have about 4lbs of the clear.
DeParted - have you tried grinding/chopping the colorant, but leaving the raw ABS in pellet form, then mixing in a cup before loading?
This is the next step.
I've reading up on masterbatch, to see if I can learn anything useful. There is something called Universal Masterbatch which is pigment mixed in a resin that is compatible with a variety of polymers. They didn't say what variety, but there might be masterbatch out there that can be used in ABS, PLA and HDPE. It might be tough to buy in anything less than a ton of course.
Just found these clear ABS pellets on Ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plastic-Pellets … 842199400?
He's been selling a few bags at a time and relisting since Nov. It looks like he has a lot of it. The melt flow index is 3, which is higher than the typical ABS filament which is 1.2. However I've noticed that the clear filaments are a little more runny anyway and like lower temps, so this might be normal. I've bought one bag, and will see how it goes. It is $8 for 1.75lb and $5.35 shipping.
Also there is a factory that makes masterbatch about 40 miles from me. I'm going to email their customer service and see if they would be willing to talk to me or sell (maybe give) me a small quantity if I go out there. 1kg of masterbatch is practically a lifetime supply.
I've reading up on masterbatch, to see if I can learn anything useful. There is something called Universal Masterbatch which is pigment mixed in a resin that is compatible with a variety of polymers. They didn't say what variety, but there might be masterbatch out there that can be used in ABS, PLA and HDPE. It might be tough to buy in anything less than a ton of course.
One ton...Group buy anybody?
The quantities these suppliers sell masterbatch in makes it almost impossible for us to experiment. The main reasons I am experimenting with trying to mix the ABS and HDPE colorant is because I know these plastics are mixed in certain applications so it must be possible. In addition, the only supplier I know of who sells small quantities of masterbatch (osprintingllc) only sells three colors of ABS and about ten of HDPE. As they are selling acquired stock it's hard to say if they are going to ever get other colors.
Trying to track down a sample of the universal masterbatch might be worth our time...
I would have given up on the HDPE/ABS combo awhile ago if it weren't for that blue filament I posted before.
Interesting:
-- The injection pressure is about 50~80kg/cm².
-- The holding pressure is about 20~50kg/cm².
-- The back pressure is about 5~10kg/cm².
Those units aren't right though, kg/cm² isn't a pressure.
One ton...Group buy anybody?
I found one supplier for PLA pellets. Minimum order quantity: 40,000 lbs.
I'm hoping Clarient in Chino has something like a few bags lying around that they use to show clients what masterbatch looks like, sample colors, etc. What they might spill on the floor in a day might be all I ever need.
Interesting:
-- The injection pressure is about 50~80kg/cm².
-- The holding pressure is about 20~50kg/cm².
-- The back pressure is about 5~10kg/cm².Those units aren't right though, kg/cm² isn't a pressure.
I've been following this thread and I'm very impressed by your extruder. It is amazing the progress you and the beta testers have made in such a short amount of time.
What is your ultimate goal? To sell extruder kits or to become a filament supplier? Maybe a little of both?
Small quibble: what's wrong with kg/cm² (kg per square cm) as a unit of pressure? Looks as valid to me as pounds per square inch (lb/in² or psi). ![]()
Titanium
I'd prefer to only sell kits. Producing and shipping filament is not something I have time to do - I'd rather people produce their own, as they need it!
Pressure is force over area. A kilogram is a measurement of mass, not force. There's a similar issue in english units, between lbm (pound-mass) and lbf (pound-force).
kg/cm^2 is shorthand for kgf/cm^2, but both versions are depreciated - not part of SI units. I was just being cheeky.
I'd prefer to only sell kits. Producing and shipping filament is not something I have time to do - I'd rather people produce their own, as they need it!
Sounds good. Do you have an idea when you'll be ready to offer the kits to the general public and how much they will cost? Days, weeks, months? I think that a lot of people, including me, are watching this with great interest and are really rooting for you.
Pressure is force over area. A kilogram is a measurement of mass, not force. There's a similar issue in english units, between lbm (pound-mass) and lbf (pound-force).
kg/cm^2 is shorthand for kgf/cm^2, but both versions are depreciated - not part of SI units. I was just being cheeky.
You are correct, of course. I only realized my mistake when I woke up this morning. I was hoping to edit my post, but you beat me to the punch.
Titanium
Sounds good. Do you have an idea when you'll be ready to offer the kits to the general public and how much they will cost? Days, weeks, months? I think that a lot of people, including me, are watching this with great interest and are really rooting for you.
I'm shooting to release the final version in late January. At this point it's mostly contingent upon how fast the beta testers build their kits - I'd like to get feedback from at least half of the new beta testers, and integrate that into the final design.
If you want to be put on the waiting list for release, shoot me an email. There's 4 people so far. ![]()
What would the effect be if the pipe and auger were 3/4" instead? Would the flow rate be the same because it's the same rpm, nozzle size and temp, or does the diameter of the melt chamber matter?
What would the effect be if the pipe and auger were 3/4" instead? Would the flow rate be the same because it's the same rpm, nozzle size and temp, or does the diameter of the melt chamber matter?
Flow rate is purely dependent on pressure at the nozzle inlet, and viscosity (dependent on temperature and plastic composition)
I'm not sure that you can find a match as close as 1/2" pipe and 5/8" auger that we use. This is a helpful chart:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel … -d_43.html
With the same motor and a bigger auger, RPM would have to be lower because you're loading the motor more heavily. The other issue is that then your melt area is a larger volume, which means more waste between colors. With a stronger (or overvolted) motor, you could up the extrusion pressure without changing the auger/pipe.
By the way, 3mm filament extrudes about 3x faster than 1.75mm filament. Oh - one other thing I realized. The Beta v2 unit I'm using has a shorter 1.6mm zone in the nozzle - about half of its length is a larger hole. That's one other possible contributing factor to the increased output.
Well guys, good news and bad news. Good news first:
Ran it for 10 hours straight, made about a kg continuous of filament without tangles or kinks:
Bad news:

Destroyed another 32lb (the blue one) thrust bearing. Looks like these are good for about 20 hours of runtime, at least in my experience.
The only 555lb bearing that has been broken was one on DeParted's and that one might have been contaminated, he said.
I'm going to have to work out this bearing issue before the final product. What do you guys think is a long enough runtime to be comfortable releasing post-beta? Maybe 100 hours straight? Luckily, the bearings are cheap and easy to replace, so if it take a couple iterations, that's not too painful.
Finally, a question for Ian, DeParted, Nickythegreek, and Jon (once he gets finished):
What did you think of having switches to control the heater and motor/fan? I could simplify the wiring a fair bit by getting rid of those. I personally don't use them - I plug in/unplug as necessary.
By the way, 3mm filament extrudes about 3x faster than 1.75mm filament. Oh - one other thing I realized. The Beta v2 unit I'm using has a shorter 1.6mm zone in the nozzle - about half of its length is a larger hole. That's one other possible contributing factor to the increased output.
So for Beta 2 you drilled the 1/8" hole in the nozzle deeper in? My idea of drilling a recess to hold a tube for the output would shorten it as well. Do you know if the industrial extruders use a nozzle like this, or do they use plates?
BTW for a cool end I'm going to give some copper tubing a try before I pay to ship a PTFE rod.
Putting a spring in between the collar and bushing will let you see if the thrust is more than the bearing is rated for, correct?
By the way, 3mm filament extrudes about 3x faster than 1.75mm filament. Oh - one other thing I realized. The Beta v2 unit I'm using has a shorter 1.6mm zone in the nozzle - about half of its length is a larger hole. That's one other possible contributing factor to the increased output.
So for Beta 2 you drilled the 1/8" hole in the nozzle deeper in? My idea of drilling a recess to hold a tube for the output would shorten it as well. Do you know if the industrial extruders use a nozzle like this, or do they use plates?
BTW for a cool end I'm going to give some copper tubing a try before I pay to ship a PTFE rod.
Putting a spring in between the collar and bushing will let you see if the thrust is more than the bearing is rated for, correct?
Well, when I built *my* beta 2, I was out of the hex brass ends. I had to grab one from Lowe's, which was partially hollow. So, it went from about 1/4" hole for 1/4" to a 1.6mm hole for 1/4".
The beta2s for everyone else will have the normal hex plugs.
Putting a spring in between the collar and bushing will let you see if the thrust is more than the bearing is rated for, correct?
Yup! That's why I'm excited about it.
Ball bearings aren't really the best for this application anyway - they're more suited to high RPM. I've gotta dig up my textbooks from undergrad...
Destroyed another 32lb (the blue one) thrust bearing. Looks like these are good for about 20 hours of runtime, at least in my experience.
I have ran the blue one for about 8 hours and i don't really like how it lines up compared to the 555lb one.
The only 555lb bearing that has been broken was one on DeParted's and that one might have been contaminated, he said.
It could also have not had even pressure applied...
I'm going to have to work out this bearing issue before the final product. What do you guys think is a long enough runtime to be comfortable releasing post-beta? Maybe 100 hours straight? Luckily, the bearings are cheap and easy to replace, so if it take a couple iterations, that's not too painful.
Finally, a question for Ian, DeParted, Nickythegreek, and Jon (once he gets finished):
What did you think of having switches to control the heater and motor/fan? I could simplify the wiring a fair bit by getting rid of those. I personally don't use them - I plug in/unplug as necessary.
I'm confused on how you have your switches hooked up...Right now I have one switch controlling the heater and one switch controlling the motor which works great.
I have ran the blue one for about 8 hours and i don't really like how it lines up compared to the 555lb one.
Yeah, the bore hole is 7/16. Too big.
It could also have not had even pressure applied...
Not sure what you mean?
I'm confused on how you have your switches hooked up...Right now I have one switch controlling the heater and one switch controlling the motor which works great.
I don't use any switches. I was asking what you thought of having them - was it worth the extra complexity in wiring over just plugging in/unplugging the motor and heater (which would have separate cords to the wall socket)
I was a bit confused about how to wire the switches, so I have one to switch on the heat, and then I plug in the motor/fan. I plan on just adding the other switch on to the wire leading to the wall wart. I don't mind having two things plugged in, but I would rather have both switches on the box (once I get it printed).
I was a bit confused about how to wire the switches, so I have one to switch on the heat, and then I plug in the motor/fan. I plan on just adding the other switch on to the wire leading to the wall wart. I don't mind having two things plugged in, but I would rather have both switches on the box (once I get it printed).
Make sense. Was just checking to see if they were worth it.
I was a bit confused about how to wire the switches
Same, the wiring diagrams need some work if they haven't already been changed. I love having both switches...i wouldn't want it any other way.
DePartedPrinter wrote:It could also have not had even pressure applied...
Not sure what you mean?
If the auger was not aligned dead center then it might not be applying even pressure to the thrust bearing. I'm sure its rated for 555lbs evenly distributed.
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