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Topic: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

How the Solidoodle 3 could’ve been my perfect personal 3D printer!

Note that I already like the Solidoodle 3 and I think it is a great printer but there are few things that I would love to see happen with the Solidoodle 4!

1) Paint the cage (and by cage I mean the metal frame)! I would’ve loved if my printer was painted Orange!

2) Throw in extra screws especially for the y-motor! The y-motor needs adjusting often and those allen socket heads get worn out really fast!

3) Close the cage—at least the two sides and the top! Keeping the 3D printer open makes it get dirty really fast and it is not good! I personally printed L-shaped clips for the sides, screwed them into the cage, and inserted a reflective Plexiglas plates (mirrors) between the clips to close the sides and keep the heat in. (<--Does not help with reducing warping.)

4) Provide a glass bed! Please don’t tell me that an 8”x8” glass piece is hard to ship! At work we ship glass doors that weight 160lbs on wooden crated with no bubble wrap all the time and they arrive just fine!

5) Speed up the bed heating process—that thing is SLOW!

6) Fix the many problems with the y-motor, y-belt, and the y-axis! The y-belt has to be in tension so the y-axis flexes and the y-motor bends up, etc, etc, etc. My suggestion is to reinforce the sheet metal where the y-motor gets attaches to the cage because that sheet metal section gets bend and that is not good!

7) Provide better support. I personally find the support on this forum excellent but the support by e-mails is lacking. Also, there are way too many websites and forums and guides and tutorials that sometimes I am not sure what to find where! (Especially for a beginner it is really confusing!) Get a central and organized website that explains all necessary steps and has all the tutorials.

8) FINALLY AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: fix the warping problem! This is the one problem that annoys me above all because I paid extra hundreds of dollars for the Solidoodle 3 so I can print parts that are 8”x8”x8” but I can’t print anything bigger than 4”x4” without warping! So what’s the point? I could’ve bought the Solidoodle 2 and saved money! Imagine if BMW sold you the M5 with over 550hp but if you have 3 passengers then you only get 225hp! Wouldn’t you be upset? I mean, it is a sedan it is supposed to be able to carry 3 passengers and still deliver over 550hp! It is the same way with the Solidoodle 3: it has an 8”x8” bed so it should be able to print 8”x8” parts—that’s the whole point! (<--Sorry if I sound upset, haha!)

I hope the Solidoodle team takes this feedback and other feedback into consideration when making the Solidoodle 4. I can’t wait to see it. smile

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Wow... to me that's an odd little request list. I haven't been around here much longer than you it seems but I'm not sure those are all really things for an upgraded version.

1) unpainted keeps the price down. Why not paint your own any colour you like?

2) huh? What did you do to the poor things, I've never destroyed a hex head bolt in my life, and these have needed all of one adjustment when I calibrated the printer.

3) Yes, and enclosure. It's certainly seen as mandatory by many here, but I have seen Solidoodles in the wild printing happily with one. So it depends on materials and such as to whether this is entirely needed. perhaps an optional extra.

4) Agreed. The aluminium plate is too prone to warping and surface irregularities. Perhaps the issue here is heat transfer to the glass though, get that licked and it could be a worthwhile feature. ( I love my glass bed, but it wasn't exactly hard to implement myself)

5) I never really noticed this being an issue. Does it vary considerably amongst machines?

6) back here again... how tight are you making this? It shouldn't be so tight that anything bends!

7) You're right, the forum here is excellent. In fact it's a big part of why I bought a Solidoodle. Finding a way to distill all this knowledge and stuff into a single wiki or website is a good goal.. but... and I'm being pedantic .. is nothing to with a new version!

8) Warping. Warping isn't a printer problem as such. There's stuff you can do with the printer t minimise it such as enclosures, temp control, heated beds etc but in the end you're talking about a fundamental characteristic of the material you are printing with. As it cools, the plastic shrinks. Knowing this you can look to incorporate design elements in your models that will minimise shrinkage, or tension along those axis. All materials have properties that need to be accounted for in the design process, and to blame a printer for a design issue is a bit rich. Of course some shapes just cant have the problem designed out of them, and in those cases using other techniques to ensure a flat print is warranted. ABS glue is a great solution, bonding the print very well to the surface.

Ok.. enough ranting, I'm sure there are some great ideas that would be practical and not deviate too far from the Solidoodle vision that could be incorporated in a future updated model.

I'd probably look at things like the hotend (all metal), auto z-calibration, improved Z-axis, and Bowden feed.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

I have had my SD3 for 3 months. Here is my take:

1) I dont like whatever color they will pick, leave it unpainted.

2) I have adjusted my Y axis once. I went from slanted eyes to perfect circles and it has stayed there.

3) They offer an enclosure already, and I dont like it. For $100, I can do my own thing. For starters, I really hate the idea of running filament through that hole to force the filament to make a 90 degree bend at the extruder.

4) Yes. Agreed. It should be a requirement, not an upgrade.

5) Yes, they should be able to source a supplier for MK2A PCB heater that will rock the heatbed. Too bad they would also need to upgrade the power supply too (and I am not 100% certain the Sang or the Printrboard can handle 12 Amps either). This will increase cost alot.

6) Again, done once and done for good.

7) This is not something that goes along with a 'next version'. This should be for all units, past, present, and future. That said, I personally have not experienced any problems per se.

8) This again has nothing to do with a specific unit. Any printer does this, it is a matter of many factors: ABS or PLA, Heated bed and substrate, use of hairspray or paste, brim, etc etc. It is not anything any manufacturer can just 'design' into a future unit.


Here is my list (I will use letters to not confuse):

A) Use real bearings. LM8UU. I get these for $0.50 each (after throwing away the bad ones). It does nto take much to write a contract specifying tolerance requirements and getting them bulk from the same place.

B) Include a friggin manual. This is the most singular ridiculous money saving thing that has been done. I dont care if all the information is regurgitated 3 fold on the web, put in writing what the first time user should do. And dont recommend the calibrations, glass, and enclosure: It should be a manufacturer requirement that basic setup calibration be performed.  Every machine I have ever owned has had setup instructions. And the more complicated the machine, the more complicated the setup. Instead of receiving tons of the same emails (my print wont stick!) and having the same questions asked in forums, these calibration steps (extrusion steps/mm, extrusion multiplier, Y tension, X tension, Z height, Bed level, PID, etc) should be considered mandatory. It would save everybody tons of time and effort (and maybe a few clogged nozzles) if this was written and available at the time of unboxing.

C) Metric screw. Does it really cost any different?

D) GT2 belts. Same reason as above, should not cost any different. I get closed belts for $4 locally. I get open belts for $2 a meter (overseas).

E) Design a bowden optional upgrade. I am thinking about speed here.

F) Stop with the acrylic. You really need to either print the extruder assembly, or source a molded version.

G) For pity sake, could you please drill a hole and place the thermistor into the heatblock so that Solidoodle owners dont have to always be 30 degrees different than everyone else? Including the temperature marked on the filament spool?


On the flipside, I want to commend some of the design choices as well:

Stamped/bent/riveted frame: Very nice way to create an accurate frame base for less money.

Stepper choice: Its easy to find a high-torque stepper. Not so easy to find a high-torque and high-speed stepper. These are both. It is easy for people to get the wrong stepper.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

needs for solidoodle 4;

1. ALL- METAL hotend.  inDimension printers' heads are $249 and handle up to 410C extrusion temperatures. i would love to be able to print in PEEK, PEKK or Nylon 918. I would have MUCH stronger cellphone cases to make for friends (amongst other things that ABS is way insufficient to make things out of in regards to strength).

2. extrusion cooler. ( this will eliminate warping) a small fan with a duct surrounding the extruder tip to speed cooling so that the ABS exerts less tension by cooling instantly. completely solid prints will be benefitted the best by this

3.  bearings.  we need linear bearings for the sliders and roller bearings for the rolling masses. this will increase accuracy and increase the life expectancy for the motors and the printer as a whole because the need for grease that attracts dust will be all but eliminated.

4. bearing supported fan coolers for the motors.  the cost of a bushing fan is $3. the cost of a bearing fan is $5. think about it, seriously. 

5. mirror or glass bed attached to the aluminum bed.  i picked up a mirror for $8 and it works great. it's cheaper than a 8"x8" piece of kapton tape and is infinitely smoother and more durable, especially when using metal tools to extract the prints.

6.  round-tooth pulleys and belts to eliminate backlash and increase accuracy.

7. 0.05, 0.025 and 0.01mm z-depths as well as an optional 0.2mm nozzle.  i understand that the propensity for clogging will dramatically increase with a smaller nozzle, but savvy customers will be able to cope.

8. filament cleaner attachment. this could be simply done with a bracket with a foam sponge going around the filament before it enters the extruder to eliminate debris entering the extruder to reduce or eliminate clogging related to debris.

5 (edited by MeshMoth 2013-10-17 21:56:07)

Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Give a warranty...

Screw you when you tell everyone, "we never said we had a warranty" just because you don't want to fix the crap you sold us.

as hazer has said... should be with all machines.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Nah, I hate warranties and guarantees, what I want is something so reliable it doesn't need a warranty :-).

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Problem with a warranty of something like this is what voids it? the minute people start modding their machine it's a bit unfair to expect others to cover the cost of your warranty if something goes wrong.

How do you tell if a part broke because of a fault, or because someone tried to change their hotend and broke the assembly in doing so.

Better to say, no warranty and work with people on a case by case basis than to increase the cost of all units to support a very grey area.

8 (edited by foofoodog 2013-10-18 11:59:11)

Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Aside from half the price I would choose a Raspberry PI or BeagleBoard or something on WIFI running OctoPrint or something so I do not have to have my POS XP notebook on or near my bench to just to dump gcode to the thing and run it.

9 (edited by adrian 2013-10-18 01:32:19)

Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

One improvement that I'd love to see - all these 'improvements i'd like to see' threads rolled up into one..

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/3928/sd- … ke-to-see/
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/3560/wha … olidoodle/
And then theres this one
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/4245/sol … ke-to-see/

And I haven't even included the ones that talk about improvements but dont include the word in their Thread Subject

And elmoret's classic from last year, which is really the only one to actually dissect the reasoning well and at least rather than just stating he wants it better - offering whats *wrong* and *why* with the current designs:
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/459/soli … iciencies/

All these threads can be found with simply searching the forum for the word 'improvements'... https://www.google.com/search?q=site:so … kgWk34DwCw

If we want to be serious about 'listing improvements' - lets list them once, not just throw up a new pipe-dream list every month  smile

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

These are some interesting ideas but try to put yourself in Solidoodle's position.  Paint, warranties, glass beds,  more people in customer service all increase the costs that would have to be passed on to the customer (if they want to stay in business).

I'm not saying these are bad ideas and I'd bet they have discussed all these internally many times. They might eventually adopt a few. However, I'd rather they stay focused on a low cost creation of a quality product and not start creating a Cube or Replicator clone.

SD2, glass bed, MK5 setup with E3D lite extruder
NX and Solid Edge CAD user
PI, Galileo, and arduino hacker
Code Monkey and Twitter user @burhop

11 (edited by elmoret 2013-10-19 20:37:25)

Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

adrian wrote:

And elmoret's classic from last year, which is really the only one to actually dissect the reasoning well and at least rather than just stating he wants it better - offering whats *wrong* and *why* with the current designs:
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/459/soli … iciencies/

I just re-read that. Kinda disappointed in it, though to be fair I'd only owned a Solidoodle (or any 3D printer) for a month.

The big mind blowing thing to me is the jigsaw. Over 6,000 units shipped without refinement or even adoption of a CC licensed design. Would cost next to nothing, given they have a botfarm.

I bet they could get E3Ds for $35 in bulk, so only about $10 more than their current hotends. You could definitely make up for that by marketing your new all metal hotend design.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Here is a fresh perspective:

My Stock SD3 with new motherboard ...... works just fine. I have no need for all of these improvements honestly. They are all 'upgrades', not needed replacements.

But I will restate this one thing: The ****ing printer arrives with a single sheet of paper that gives next to nothing for what you should do. Instead, lets all read the internets for a couple of days to finally get all the right information (and hope your not one of those who just clogged thier nozzle by reading the wrong information) from 2 wikis, a forum that keeps saying 'all the information is in the wiki (which one again?), and lets not forget Solidoodles main page (outdated) that is more of a blog.

A few printed pages would go farther than anything else.

I know you seasoned guys believe the right information is well structured and easily obtainable, but from the 'new owners' standpoint, it downright sucks. Especially when most of the best information doesnt even come from the actual people who sold you the printer.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

To be fair to Solidoodle:

1) I don't really want a warranty. I think the printer is well designed and built over all. Beside, if I am using a 3D printer that means there is a big chance that I am a bit handy myself and can fix little things myself; I'd rather watch a tutorial and fix it myself than send it to them and pay for shipping and wait 4 weeks for it to be fixed and send back to me.

2) I rarely leave things unmodified and my car is a testament to that! It's not fair to ask Solidoodle to fix something I broke! Providing warranty by a small and new business can be a financial suicide.

I am not saying that Solidoodle is a horrible printer--all I am saying is that I really like this printer and would like to see it improved. If I had a chance to buy a 3D printer again, I would still choose the Solidoodle over any other brand. My favourite part about it is its simplicity and relative ease of maintenance. The worst part is the warping.

Oh, may be I want it to be painted because at work I often design things out of sheet metal and I am sick and tired of looking at bland gray sheet metal parts all day longs that I don't want to see the same thing when I come home! All I am saying is you add the paint as an option. I think painting it will make it more professional looking and competitive. smile

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

Hazer wrote:

Here is a fresh perspective:

My Stock SD3 with new motherboard ...... works just fine. I have no need for all of these improvements honestly. They are all 'upgrades', not needed replacements.

But I will restate this one thing: The ****ing printer arrives with a single sheet of paper that gives next to nothing for what you should do. Instead, lets all read the internets for a couple of days to finally get all the right information (and hope your not one of those who just clogged thier nozzle by reading the wrong information) from 2 wikis, a forum that keeps saying 'all the information is in the wiki (which one again?), and lets not forget Solidoodles main page (outdated) that is more of a blog.

A few printed pages would go farther than anything else.

I know you seasoned guys believe the right information is well structured and easily obtainable, but from the 'new owners' standpoint, it downright sucks. Especially when most of the best information doesnt even come from the actual people who sold you the printer.

Paper does cost money, but then again so does support. I had a manual draft a while back, but other priorities came to the forefront. Maybe we shall do a manual for next time. However, we may have a different idea of what a good manual would be than the community does.

One of our ideas has always been to make sure users aren't overwhelmed by information at the start of the process. This philosophy conflicts with the idea of giving a full explanation of the printer. 

If you absolutely had to pare things down, what would you include?

View our basic set-up procedures as a prototype of sorts. What would you like included?

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

The stuff I needed to do first was calibration. I think a warning that you probably can't bounce one of these around in a UPS truck for thousands of miles without it getting out of calibration would be in order, and at least a pointer to the web site for the calibrations you probably need to do from simplest to most complex would get people printing faster.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

solidoodlesupport wrote:

If you absolutely had to pare things down, what would you include?

View our basic set-up procedures as a prototype of sorts. What would you like included?

Breakdown of the parts and their names.

Glossary of terms.

Lastly: Dont suggest or gloss over calibrations. I have said it before: Publicly state they are mandatory. Currently your website says this:

-Install software.
-Connect printer
-Change filament
-Print

You should be saying:

-Install software
-Connect printer
-Manually move head
-Home Z
-Level bed
-Set Z
-Change filament
-Calibrate extruder steps/mm (include a paper ruler they can cut out to help)
-Print test cube with 1 wall for extruder calibration
-Check X/Y belt tension
-Print 20mm cylinder (or another filament spool holder)

Considering my personal experience where my bed was way off, Z height was over 2mm out, X/Y belts were mis-aligned and unevenly tensioned, and I changed my steps/mm for my extruder by more than 30%, I dont think these steps are in any way extraneous. If I had been told up front, I would have wasted much less time and filament getting to where I am now. It would have been a better 'out of the box' experience.

I would also like to note:
-My printer arrived in one piece and clean, no broken parts.
-My printer works great as stock and I have even less issues than most of the seasoned people have had.


The reason why I harped on this particular thing is that I spent so much time learning everything, and choosing what did NOT apply to me, it got frustrating. For starters, I had downloaded the newest version of RH, not the SD version. I followed outdated guides to setting up RH that made prints badly (they were outdated because I was using the wrong RH and the guide was for the original migration to RH). The wikis were still new, and they both had conflicting information. Even today, as I read through them, they are still confusing. One Wiki focuses more on Sanguino SD2's with wooden beds. Um, that helps me not at all. And if someone with an SD3 with printrboard goes there, he will either be confused, or mess up his printer. That is why I dont like the wikis right now. They are poorly structured (each page should be broken in half whenever model type or motherboard versions make a difference, not just omiiting non-included information), there are 2 of them, and there is nothing distinguishing the one thats officially supported.

For instance: 3 times in the last week, people on the forums who have recently purchased a Solidoodle have had problems getting good prints and believed their nozzles were 0.35mm. Currently concensus of everyone is that if you got yours 'within the last 4 months' you have 0.4mm nozzle. It would have been really nice to have received something written by the manufacturer stating that your particular unit came with these particular specifications.

Even my toaster came with a 7 page manual.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

I think this is too important a question to be buried in a thread like this. I think Solidoodle should start a thread and ask this question so all responses are contained in one spot. I'm sure a few people here would have some very good input to provide.

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

One of our ideas has always been to make sure users aren't overwhelmed by information at the start of the process. This philosophy conflicts with the idea of giving a full explanation of the printer.

I am not being sarcastic but I find this funny because when I got the printer I was OVERWHELMED with not knowing what to do or where to go. It took me 3 weeks to have a first decent print and a month a half to actually print something useful, and I am a mechanical engineer and a pretty handy person! Imagine if I wasn't mechanically inclined!

What I would like is a SINGLE webpage that directs me step-by-step, in clear, correct, and concise details what I need to do from A to Z to be able to have a decent print. Because so far there are websites, links, videos, tutorials, forums, and e-mail addresses all over the place! I wish someone had said "Don't use Skeinforge" with red letters so I wouldn't waste 2-3 weeks trying to print a decent part that's sliced by it!

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Re: Solidoodle 4: What improvements would you like to see?

That is why I dont like the wikis right now.

I completely agree. I have not found a single Wiki based page/thread (or whatever is that mess is called) helpful. Here is why.

1) The layout/formatting is horrible. I almost never find what I am looking for.

2) Those articles are usually general and can apply to anything. Most writings are in the form...if you have this printer do this...but if your motherboard is this then go to this...if your printer had 2 red lights and 1 green light flashing every 3 seconds then go to this...if not then...??? Very confusing!

3) They are written by "experts" and expect the reader to read their minds. For example, if you want the printer to do something, just type this line YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Type it where? Before I run the print? While the printer is printing? How do I do that?