1 Topic by Rocketman

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Topic: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

Which is better for holding models together? I used Tamiya cement and it does work to hold, and doesn't expand when it dries. However it continues to smell after it dries and I basically need to slather it on to cover the surface since using the little brush would take forever for large models. It contains both Acetone and Butyl Acetate (causes Cancer in California but apparently not in the other 49 states. lol.) Also the 2oz or so bottle cost $7. I was able to buy a big jug of acetone for around as much. Would just using straight acetone be better? Would acetone pretty much evaporate completely after it fuses pieces together leaving behind no smell?

2 Reply by RavensCrest

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

I use model cement for models too, their melting power is stronger than acetone, imho.
Anyway MEK is the answer. check out this.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2646/tes … r-for-abs/

Solidoodle2 with Ceramic tile heated bed http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2544/my- … eated-bed/
"1kg should last for an while" is a lie!

3 Reply by Rocketman

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

RavensCrest wrote:

I use model cement for models too, their melting power is stronger than acetone, imho.
Anyway MEK is the answer. check out this.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2646/tes … r-for-abs/

I am concerned about smell and chemical remains. I'd like all my models to be safe around children as I might sell them to any number of people. I don't mind if acetone takes a little longer to really take hold. Just so long as it makes it stick initially so I can leave it alone for a day or so while it finished up.

4 Reply by cckens

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

If you're going to use acetone, I'd recommend dissolving some ABS in it.  This is the standard slurry that people use on their beds, but also works like gangbusters to join prints together.  The dissolved ABS creates a matrix between the parts and melts into the join. 

I use the extruded filament curls that I get off the extruder when I manually extrude to clear the nozzle.  Also, you can use thin first layer pieces, like a brim, to add to the amount.  These thin, small pieces dissolve rather quickly and you can start using the slurry in about 1/2 an hour after adding to the acetone.  I keep it in a small jar with a wood-stick cotton swab so that I can brush it on the bed or a part to join or smooth. 

Ratio that you want to use is about 1 to 6 by weight (ABS to Acetone) to get a good slurry.  The thicker the slurry the more likely it will evaporate and dry out.  Thinner is good, but too thin and you don't build a good matrix between the parts.  There is a drying time involved (a day or so, but you're prepared for that), but once done, the acetone is completely evaporated and all you have left is pure plastic.

YMMV

5 Reply by Rocketman

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

cckens wrote:

If you're going to use acetone, I'd recommend dissolving some ABS in it.  This is the standard slurry that people use on their beds, but also works like gangbusters to join prints together.  The dissolved ABS creates a matrix between the parts and melts into the join. 

I use the extruded filament curls that I get off the extruder when I manually extrude to clear the nozzle.  Also, you can use thin first layer pieces, like a brim, to add to the amount.  These thin, small pieces dissolve rather quickly and you can start using the slurry in about 1/2 an hour after adding to the acetone.  I keep it in a small jar with a wood-stick cotton swab so that I can brush it on the bed or a part to join or smooth. 

Ratio that you want to use is about 1 to 6 by weight (ABS to Acetone) to get a good slurry.  The thicker the slurry the more likely it will evaporate and dry out.  Thinner is good, but too thin and you don't build a good matrix between the parts.  There is a drying time involved (a day or so, but you're prepared for that), but once done, the acetone is completely evaporated and all you have left is pure plastic.

YMMV

Will the acetone evaporate completely away no matter what or must the slurry mixture be right for it to have chance? If I were using transparent ABS or using it on thin walls I should prepare special batches to match the material?

6 Reply by cckens

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

The acetone should completely evaporate.  There may be a residual scent while it's drying, but that's about it.

Using it on transparent ABS may cause fogging, but since I don't print with it, I can't verify that.

7 Reply by Rocketman

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

cckens wrote:

The acetone should completely evaporate.  There may be a residual scent while it's drying, but that's about it.

Using it on transparent ABS may cause fogging, but since I don't print with it, I can't verify that.

So you're saying unlike the cement which costs more anyway the acetone slurry will be rid of smell and any nasty chemical safety issues in a couple days? I want my models to be perfectly safe.

8 Reply by cckens

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

Would I cook with parts I made?  No... but would I let children handle parts that I've made and put together with ABS slurry?  Sure, so long as they don't try to eat them.  Plastic isn't good for any digestive system.  Would I let them touch cold food?  Probably, but I'd wash them in warm, soapy water as that's just good common sense when food-handling.  I've done acetone vapor baths on ABS cookie cutters and used them after thoroughly washing them in soap and water (you should make sure that the acetone is gone before doing this; just make sure that you let them sit for about 24 hrs to make sure).

9 Reply by RavensCrest

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

you are asking the wrong question here... if you have health concern and safety concern, call that number on the back of your solvent.  Smell will air out eventually.. even store bought plastic contrainer smells like plastic.

and even if we tell you it's safe.. somewhere by some other study will say we are wrong... you shouldn't seek for comfort here.. you should do your own research about the residual, we are not responsible if something goes wrong.

Solidoodle2 with Ceramic tile heated bed http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2544/my- … eated-bed/
"1kg should last for an while" is a lie!

10 Reply by dkeeling728

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Re: Acetone or Tamiya Extra Thin Cement?

where is the whole "nasty chemical acetone" rubbish coming from? sure you dont want to bathe in it, or drink it, or get a direct wiff of strong vapor concentration (like hot bath vapor), but its still one of the safest solvents in the hardware store. its a natural occurring chemical produced in the human body, so just inhaling normal vapor concentrations should cause no harm. and go look at the ingredients on your daughters/wifes bottle of fingernail polish remover.

toluene also works great on ABS as a glue, BUT, toluene is mostly benzene, which is a harmful solvent (known carcinogen, etc). same with xylene. back in the day you could get benzene as a paint solvent in hardware stores, but not anymore... unless you work in a plant and take samples on shore tanks... no comment there smile.

but acetone is a perfectly safe solvent for ABS finishing and gluing. just use common sense and wash your hands afterwards, if you do use gloves, make sure they are latex or nitrile. normal plastic gloves will most likely make like ABS and melt. and keep your can tightly sealed, acetone is slightly hygroscopic so it can slowly soak up atmospheric moisture and water itself down.