1 (edited by andrea.rimo 2013-06-21 08:18:56)

Topic: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Hi all,
I have bought the SD3 for my company and since I received it I had nothing but troubles. I managed to fix all of them with help from SD tech support (the platform arrived broken, they were nice to send an aluminum replacement but they did not sent the longer springs and Z-tab so I had to provide myself)) and some help found here in topics...
now, I have the last problem that I can't solve and it's driving me mad (not to mention my boss, which was expecting an out of the box printer and I am spending more time on tweaking this thing than doing my work...)
But anyway...
the heated bed is not flat.... if I set it to be at correct heght in the center, it falls off as soon as move towards the edges by as much as 0.6mm.
SD tech support keeps telling me it's a matter of leveling the bed, procedure I have performed several times but really can't be done, as the difference from point to point is too much... their tutorial shows a 0.05mm difference from one side o the opposite...
I prepared a PDF that I sent 2 days ago to the tech support and while I wait, I would like to know your experience...
I even put a video on you tube to show the problem...

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2

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

That happens sometimes. I suggest using a glass plate on top of the bed, as many have done.

3

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Yeah, while it's wrong for you to have a bed that far off flat, since you're going to end up wanting to use glass anyway, it's probably not worth worrying too hard about.

You can get 8"x8" pieces of glass at hardware stores, and craft stores also sell mirrors that size.  Get a few, so you can get one ready for the next job while the previous job is printing.  Hold it on with binder clamps.  You will want to give each piece of glass a good cleaning (I use glass cleaner) and then cover the print area generously with hairspray (I use AquaNet) before printing.  You won't need to run the heater at 100, most people do 80-90.

4

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

I have had this issue as well except that mine was only off at the back of the bed.  The glass works except that when you clamp it down you may bend the glass slightly which is still an issue.  A better thing to try is to get something compressible under the glass to make sure that the bed stays level.  You'll want to use something that also conducts the heat, so I use a cutdown silicone mat with a smaller shim of mat under the side that is lower.  This helps a little, but I still have to do some more tests. I have an effective print area of 100mm^2 in the center, but I'm slowly increasing this as I dial in the bed level.

5 (edited by MolecularConcept 2013-06-21 18:09:23)

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Hunter Green wrote:

Yeah, while it's wrong for you to have a bed that far off flat, since you're going to end up wanting to use glass anyway, it's probably not worth worrying too hard about.
.


yeah but you spend almost a thousand dollars on something and and you still have to fix it when you get it brand new?  thats not cool.  my bed isnt flat either. im going to be printing on glass.

my kapton tape was ripped when i got my sd3 in the mail. emailed them they wanted a picture and i provided them with it and its been 2 days now with no reply. am i wrong in thinking they should replace it? ...

i should also state that i am NOT unhappy with my purchase, i knew what i was getting into when i ordered. but itsnot an out-of-the-box printer and shouldnt be advertised as such. tinkering is most definitely required!

UPDATE:  just got an email from support they are sending me a new square. sweet.

6 (edited by andrea.rimo 2013-06-21 20:56:12)

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

I have to agree with Molecular, it is advertised as out of the box 3D printing, mine was broken out of the box. I have been tweaking it for a couple of weeks now... The problem is that I bought this printer for my company... it was supposed to be out of the box printing... by the time I have it working as advertised, it will cost the company more than $1000 in my time not doing my work...
I am disappointed as the printer seems to print well after all, but I can only use the center 100x100mm. we bought the SD3 because we need that extra dimension.
About using the glass... my bed is so warped that the glass would either bend or touch only on a tiny area in the middle... how will it heat up if there is 0.5mm of air in between?
plus, I reallly like how the Kapton works... ABS sticks perfectly, it's easy to remove and it's ready for another print... no hair spray or taping... After all I am in an office, can you imagine using hairspray?

I really hope they will reconsider my case and send me a replacement bed that is flat...

7 (edited by dubbsd 2013-06-21 22:04:30)

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

when it is heated the  aluminum bed will warp if it was stressed in machining
just like a cookie sheet in an oven. what I am thinking about doing is putting a layer of thermal paste
between the bed and glass with Kapton on the glass ( can not use hair spray on mounted glass.)

Ultimaker S3.

8

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

chances are that bed will not be flat either.  they need to find a new source for their aluminum beds.

if i change to a QU BD bed will i have to change my controller board?  they are both 12V right ? if so is there a "drop in replacement" ?

9

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

False advertising is misleading or simply untrue information presented to consumers in an advertisement, usually TV, radio, the Internet, newspapers or magazines, or spoken to them by a salesperson to get them to purchase an item or visit a place of business.

hmmm has ANYONE EVER got thier printer  to print out of the box ?

10 (edited by 2n2r5 2013-06-21 23:09:23)

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

MolecularConcept wrote:

False advertising is misleading or simply untrue information presented to consumers in an advertisement, usually TV, radio, the Internet, newspapers or magazines, or spoken to them by a salesperson to get them to purchase an item or visit a place of business.

hmmm has ANYONE EVER got thier printer  to print out of the box ?


I did, other than have some problems sticking. That was mostly because I couldn't figure out that the bed needed to be heated to stick.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

11

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

I have several machines from SD they all printed out of the box... most did however need the extrusion factor to be lowered one the bed was real close to level and one has a slightly warped aluminum bed, this compared to several other machines by different manufacturers that have had worse bed stability problems.

12

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

MolecularConcept wrote:

chances are that bed will not be flat either.  they need to find a new source for their aluminum beds.

if i change to a QU BD bed will i have to change my controller board?  they are both 12V right ? if so is there a "drop in replacement" ?

If you add a QU-BD bed you should upgrade the power supply while you're at it. I recently did Lawsy's QU-BD mod with a DELL PowerEdge 2650 I bought on eBay for around $10-15.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1819/hea … isonsstls/

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

13

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Krythis wrote:
MolecularConcept wrote:

chances are that bed will not be flat either.  they need to find a new source for their aluminum beds.

if i change to a QU BD bed will i have to change my controller board?  they are both 12V right ? if so is there a "drop in replacement" ?

If you add a QU-BD bed you should upgrade the power supply while you're at it. I recently did Lawsy's QU-BD mod with a DELL PowerEdge 2650 I bought on eBay for around $10-15.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1819/hea … isonsstls/

And the wire jumpers don't forget... it'll work with out them.. for a while, before the PCB tracks will vaporise smile

14

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Hehe well im printing its just not sticking. My house is is really cool though i have my AC cranked. So im on hold till i get my enclosure finished( front piece i cut to short) and the top is in the mail.

Gonna get a dial gauge and see exactly whats goin on

15

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

see... we bought this printer as an alternative solution to the outrageously expensive Stratasys or HP professional 3d printers (which ranged above the $15000). It was an experiment, and I could live with the fact that the experiment failed due to some technical reason, like the accuracy is not good enough, the resolution and so on... what really drives me crazy is that the accuracy (once calibrated properly) is really good, I printed a component 89mm on the Xaxis it came out 88.97mm, another was 120mm tall it came out 120.04... and I have to stand there looking at a machine that is really precise and not be able to use it 100% because a piece of aluminium is bent... I really have a hard time dealing with this... and this is not crazy rocket science, you just need a piece of flat marble with fine sandpaper on it and once you get the aluminum bed, you just rub it a little bit on the sandpaper and it comes out flat to the 5 micron...
As I said, this drives me crazy...

16

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

MolecularConcept wrote:

Hehe well im printing its just not sticking. My house is is really cool though i have my AC cranked. So im on hold till i get my enclosure finished( front piece i cut to short) and the top is in the mail.

Gonna get a dial gauge and see exactly whats goin on

I do not use enclosures on any of my machines ABS or PLA  normal room temps where printers are range from 60 to 70 F, while I have thought about going to glass/hairspray have not done so yet so I still print on either kapton(ABS) or tape(PLA), the only time I have trouble is when I don't clean the bed with acetone every once in a while. The main thing I learned is don't get the nozzle too far above the bed for the first layer, I use a piece of printer paper 20 pound stock as a guide... some people say paper is too thin but it works for me... I also don't run a/c so maybe the humidity or the lack of it is a factor in sticking...

17

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

andrea.rimo wrote:

...since I received it I had nothing but troubles....which was expecting an out of the box printer and I am spending more time on tweaking this thing than doing my work...)
But anyway...

Man-o-man do I feel your frustration!

They market it on their website as "out of the box" & then you get it & spend weeks fixing & tweaking it.

Sorry for the not-so-constructive post, but believe me, we know how you feel.

No trees were harmed in the creation of this email, though some electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

18

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

andrea.rimo wrote:

see... we bought this printer as an alternative solution to the outrageously expensive Stratasys or HP professional 3d printers (which ranged above the $15000). It was an experiment, and I could live with the fact that the experiment failed due to some technical reason, like the accuracy is not good enough, the resolution and so on... what really drives me crazy is that the accuracy (once calibrated properly) is really good, I printed a component 89mm on the Xaxis it came out 88.97mm, another was 120mm tall it came out 120.04... and I have to stand there looking at a machine that is really precise and not be able to use it 100% because a piece of aluminium is bent... I really have a hard time dealing with this... and this is not crazy rocket science, you just need a piece of flat marble with fine sandpaper on it and once you get the aluminum bed, you just rub it a little bit on the sandpaper and it comes out flat to the 5 micron...
As I said, this drives me crazy...

So you bought a $600 printer as an alternative to a $15k printer and expected it to work as flawlessly as the $15k printer?

sad

19

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

elmoret wrote:

So you bought a $600 printer as an alternative to a $15k printer and expected it to work as flawlessly as the $15k printer?

sad

ha yeah for 600-800 you aren't getting a ground flat piece of aluminum...

If you have a real business where people with normal labor rates will be working with this printer, you bought the wrong printer.  If you are really trying to make things in a production environment an industrial one ends up being cheaper.

20

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

elmoret wrote:

So you bought a $600 printer as an alternative to a $15k printer and expected it to work as flawlessly as the $15k printer?

sad

No, what I did was buying a 3d printed to see if we had a use for it. the advertised specs were enough to let us decide if we needed anything more. but this is not the problem, the problem is it is not doing what it was advertised.

21

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Hunter Green wrote:

while it's wrong for you to have a bed that far off flat

Just wanted to make clear that my original post agreed with the people who are pretending to be disagreeing with it.

22

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

? I thought it was an experiment.... that failed because you couldn't find a piece of flat marble( granite would work better)

23

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

ronsii wrote:

? I thought it was an experiment.... that failed because you couldn't find a piece of flat marble( granite would work better)


mmmhhh, thank you for the reply, very helpful... let me see, what was the topic again... maybe "what does ronsii think?" o no... here "discussion about natural stones", naaaaaaaa I'm sorry, OFF TOPIC, thank you for participating, please try again tomorrow, maybe you'll have more luck....

24

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

Thanks, I try to help so when I see someone complaining about something they seemed to expect... I can't help but lend a hand, as for replying to your point about flattening I wouldn't use marble for a flat plate as it can have inconsistencies which can lead to similar heat related warping problems... how ever if any material is thick enough it can also resist warping so use whatever you think will work... it's just every surface plate I have used has been granite but I would guess there are also some made from marble smile

There are plenty of threads on here and many other forums about what people do to combat the problems encountered with heat related bed problems on their printers whether they are home built or commercial, in my case on the bed I had that was about 6 thousandths out I simply removed it sat it on a piece of pipe and smacked it with a rubber mallet a few times until it straightened up and it has been working fine since, I guess for less than ten dollars I could have got a thicker piece of aluminum and drilled three holes in it and had the same effect but I had the mallet so.... I took care of the problem instead of letting it stop me from using the printer smile

25

Re: SD3 problems with bed not flat

I know an enclosure is not necessary  but I think it gives a more finished look. Also it stops air currents and that is most definitely a variable I'll have work with , at least while I have the ac on. It blows right into the room the air is stopngenoughto low papers around on the table.

My top came on the mail today now all I need is some hinges and some 8x8 glass and I'll give it another shot.