1 Topic by splatmanoz

  • splatmanoz
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-08-20
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

I have just been through 3 weeks of pain with my 1.0a, so I'm sharing some of what I have found.

As a starting point XYZWare is terrible. Even worse, is the "automatic" "calibration". I finally got somewhere when I did the "paper" bed levelling that's a sticky topic in this Da Vinci section of the forum. So yesterday I had my printer nicely levelled and producing some good prints at 0.3mm or 0.4mm. I use Simplify3D, incidentally, and have only resorted to XYZWare when arguing a warranty claim with the Australian distributor.

So today I decided to do a large print and try 0.1mm layer. S3D defaulted to a first layer height of 150%. In the middle of the bed the print seemed OK, but on the edges I got the click of death (stuck extruder due to the nozzle pressing down on the glass). So I made up a 10mm square test file, started printing an array of them across the bed, stopping after the first layer, and fine-adjusting the 3 bed levelling screws to tweak the results. What happened was that when the test samples on the edges were good (left in the picture), the ones towards the middle of the bed (right) were "gappy".

http://soliforum.com/i/?zCrELKi.jpg
Left: Sample from near adjustment knob B. Right: Sample from near the middle. Sorry about unsharp smartphone picture. The black smudges are from me numbering the samples.


I had already observed ages ago that my print bed is about 0.1mm lower in the middle than on the edges (concave). That 0.1mm makes all the difference!

So I decided to do the same test with XYZWare, so I'd have ammunition to hit the distributor with. The test print came out looking absolutely perfect. Then I checked the thickness of the various samples. XYZWare was printing 0.4mm first layer height!

Conclusion: XYZ are using their software to mask imperfections in the printer.

I just ran another test with S3D and 400% first layer height, and it looks good.

I would be interested to know if others have observed non-flat print beds in Da Vinci printers. Is there an accepted norm for such things with other types of FFF printers? It seems really weird to me that a piece of glass isn't properly flat - or am I just expecting too much?

2 Reply by evanalmighty

  • evanalmighty
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-01-04
  • Posts: 224

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

All xyz beds are like that. Some of us have upgraded to a thicker piece of boro glass that is more flat, rigid, and temperature stable.  The stock xyz glass is rather thin.  Printing a thicker first layer to overcome this is not that big of a deal. It also helps the part sticks to the bed more. If you start out with a thin 1st layer your part might not stick to the bed even if it's perfectly flat.

3 Reply by splatmanoz

  • splatmanoz
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-08-20
  • Posts: 5

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

Thanks evanalmighty. I had seen references to people replacing the glass. I'll have to google that. I read last night that the heater is very difficult to separate from the glass - one XYZ reseller recommends buying a new heater if replacing the official glass. The heater here in Australia is nearly $90, the official glass 1/3 of that.

I had, BTW, the week I got my printer 4 months ago, observed that the bed temperature is very uneven, something like 10°C variation. Has anyone added maybe a copper heat spreader?

4 Reply by carl_m1968

  • carl_m1968
  • carl_m1968
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Far North almost not Dallas
  • Registered: 2014-10-17
  • Posts: 6,512

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

splatmanoz wrote:

Thanks evanalmighty. I had seen references to people replacing the glass. I'll have to google that. I read last night that the heater is very difficult to separate from the glass - one XYZ reseller recommends buying a new heater if replacing the official glass. The heater here in Australia is nearly $90, the official glass 1/3 of that.

I had, BTW, the week I got my printer 4 months ago, observed that the bed temperature is very uneven, something like 10°C variation. Has anyone added maybe a copper heat spreader?

You don't have to do anything with the existing glass and heater as long as it is working. Just loosen the mounting tabs slip the new glass under the tabs and snug them down. You will then have to use the level adjusters to bring the bed down the height of the glass. You also will have discontinueusing the auto level system and use the manual procedure outlined in the XYZ section.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

5 Reply by carl_m1968

  • carl_m1968
  • carl_m1968
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Far North almost not Dallas
  • Registered: 2014-10-17
  • Posts: 6,512

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

splatmanoz wrote:

Thanks evanalmighty. I had seen references to people replacing the glass. I'll have to google that. I read last night that the heater is very difficult to separate from the glass - one XYZ reseller recommends buying a new heater if replacing the official glass. The heater here in Australia is nearly $90, the official glass 1/3 of that.

I had, BTW, the week I got my printer 4 months ago, observed that the bed temperature is very uneven, something like 10°C variation. Has anyone added maybe a copper heat spreader?

You don't have to do anything with the existing glass and heater as long as it is working. Just loosen the mounting tabs slip the new glass under the tabs and snug them down. You will then have to use the level adjusters to bring the bed down the height of the glass. You also will have discontinueusing the auto level system and use the manual procedure outlined in the XYZ section.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

6 Reply by evanalmighty

  • evanalmighty
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-01-04
  • Posts: 224

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

If you have access to IPA ( alcohol) it will take the heater right off of the glass. Then you can get some acrylic based high temp double sided tape to adhere it to the new glass.

7 Reply by kev0175

  • kev0175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-17
  • Posts: 146

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

Davincizone.com might be able to help

Da Vinci  AiO with firmware 1.1.1 using xyzscan 1.1.18
E3Dv6 hotend with custom carriage with Borosilicate glass bed
123D Design and Simplify3D, Replaced PS with a Solidgear Flex320
Zerokart resetter,  Installed a Extruder Controller for higher temps

8 Reply by splatmanoz

  • splatmanoz
  • Newbie
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-08-20
  • Posts: 5

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

Thanks kev0175 for that pointer. I will hold off until the warranty expires, then consider modifying my 1.0a.

9 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-08-26 15:36:11)

  • jnadke
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-01-24
  • Posts: 42

Re: Bed not flat, getting 0.1mm layer height to work.

If you're not in a hurry I'd order this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-Print … 42823.html


I bought one and they work very well for $10.  Borosilicate glass is very worth it, due to the different expansion rates prints now literally pop themselves off the bed, and I have 0 adhesion issues (using AquaNet hair spray from WalMart).

I just loosened the 4 retention screws/clips (as noted above) and slid that glass plate on top.  I put the 213mm edge the vertical way, and the 200mm edge left/right, enabling the clips to secure the plate.


The Da Vinci is technically a 210mm x 210mm bed, but due to the retention clips the printer only uses 200 x 200mm (or the printer will hit them, unless you remove it.


I used the edge of a steel ruler, my old bed had a 1mm-2mm dip in the center.  With the plate on its perfectly flat.  I'd strongly suggest doing the replacement, a flat bed is #1 in importance for FDM printing, calibration coming 2nd.


You will have to lower the 3 bed screws to their lowest setting, or use Repetier and change the Z home position.


I've confirmed its Borosilicate glass by calculating the Density of my plate 301 grams / (21.2 cm * 20cm * 0.3cm).  Cheap Soda Lime is 2.57 g/cm^3, and borosilicate is 2.23 g/cm^3.