1 Topic by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Topic: Rough surface problem

Hi,
I am new to 3D printing, and I received my Solidoodle Workbench 2 weeks ago(My written English might not be that good, apologize for that). It took me a long time to calibrate the Y-axis to make this thing move. Besides that, I tried blue tape, glue stick, hairspray, and ABS juice to create a nice bond between the heated glass bed and the filament, and I am only using one extruder for now.

However, the second extruder is causing problem when I was printing the first layer. It keeps contacting the material printed on the bed, and there's a big chance that it may drag the whole thing towards its moving direction.

Attached is the photo showing how rough the printed surface was, and due to the roughness, the print head may get caught when moving across the surface, and the belt may slip. This can ruin the whole printing because of misalignment. Can anyone help me with this problem? I am thinking that maybe I over extrude too much material.

Post's attachments

IMG_1843.JPG
IMG_1843.JPG 1.45 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

2 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

attached is the current settings I am using, I tried different Extrusion Multiplier, Extrusion width, and different speed and temp, but however, the extruder can still create some resudue on the printed surface, so once cooled down, those resudue can make the surface rough and affect the route for the extruder, which may lead to the slip of belt teeth.

Post's attachments

0.2mm layers settings 1.png
0.2mm layers settings 1.png 82.07 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

0.2mm layers settings 2.png
0.2mm layers settings 2.png 54.99 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

0.2mm layers settings 3.png 60.61 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

0.2mm layers settings 4.png
0.2mm layers settings 4.png 56.55 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

1.75mm Filament settings.png
1.75mm Filament settings.png 42.34 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

3 Reply by IronMan

  • IronMan
  • IronMan
  • PRINTiT
  • Offline
  • From: SC
  • Registered: 2012-09-14
  • Posts: 1,269

Re: Rough surface problem

It is important that both nozzles are at the exact same height and that the print bed is parallel to both.  It sounds like your 2nd nozzle is slightly lower than the first.  I do not own a Workbench, but when the bed is at Z home, then use a sheet of paper (.003") to adjust the gap to the nozzles at all four corners of the bed and make sure they are both at the same height...

I am assuming there is some type of adjustment at the hot end area to adjust them independantly.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

4 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

Both Nozzles seems like in the same level, the problem is, not only the second nozzle contacts the printed material, the main Nozzle also drag through the printed material (which is cooled down and created rough surface). So I am thinking maybe I over extrude too much, or the over lap is too much so the material was squeezed up after extrusion. But if I don't extrude this amount, the filament can not stick to the printbed, and it is another problem.

5 Reply by IronMan

  • IronMan
  • IronMan
  • PRINTiT
  • Offline
  • From: SC
  • Registered: 2012-09-14
  • Posts: 1,269

Re: Rough surface problem

Overextruding can cause this...Try these two steps:

https://solidoodletips.wordpress.com/20 … libration/

and

https://solidoodletips.wordpress.com/20 … flow-rate/

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

6 Reply by carl_m1968

  • carl_m1968
  • carl_m1968
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Far North almost not Dallas
  • Registered: 2014-10-17
  • Posts: 6,512

Re: Rough surface problem

zqfrancis wrote:

Both Nozzles seems like in the same level, the problem is, not only the second nozzle contacts the printed material, the main Nozzle also drag through the printed material (which is cooled down and created rough surface). So I am thinking maybe I over extrude too much, or the over lap is too much so the material was squeezed up after extrusion. But if I don't extrude this amount, the filament can not stick to the printbed, and it is another problem.


If you have to overextrude to stick to the bed then your bed is not properly calibrated. Ideally the gap between your bed an nozzle should be at the maximum of half your layer height. To ball park it you should be able to place a piece of paper between the bed and nozzle and just feel the paper slightly drag between them. Even better, use a .15 or .10 feeler gauge.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7 Reply by OneMoreCast

  • OneMoreCast
  • OneMoreCast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Long Island, NY
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 334

Re: Rough surface problem

I had problems too and had my flow bumped up super high...problem wound up being my extruder was not calibrated correctly. The link jago posted will help 100% if thats the case. Makes a huge diff, you shouldnt have to touch flow when everything is running good.

"All your base are belong to us." SD4 with a RUMBA, supernight PS, 40mm fan on X motor, lawsey carriages with new better tolerance rods, flanged rear bearings, new NEMA 17 with leadscrew on Z-Axis, and e3d v6 with MK5.


Ward and Jago are my heroes tongue

OneMoreCast's Website

8 Reply by OneMoreCast (edited by OneMoreCast 2015-03-04 07:52:44)

  • OneMoreCast
  • OneMoreCast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Long Island, NY
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 334

Re: Rough surface problem

Also what temp is bed and hotend? Brand of filament ks also huge role...junk in junk out, what brand are you using. For future purchases I cant recommend Octave highly enough, stuffs fantastic

"All your base are belong to us." SD4 with a RUMBA, supernight PS, 40mm fan on X motor, lawsey carriages with new better tolerance rods, flanged rear bearings, new NEMA 17 with leadscrew on Z-Axis, and e3d v6 with MK5.


Ward and Jago are my heroes tongue

OneMoreCast's Website

9 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

Thank you for all the advises! I do appreciate that!

My current setting for hot end is 220, and 100 for print bed. I think I need to calibrate the Extruder, I found out yesterday that the step motor is not extruding the right length. instead of extruding 100mm, it extruded 128mm, So I have to make changes to the firmwares first, and then try a few tests.

Based on the video for Extruder Calibration,  I need to update the firmware.  Or I can simply change the Extrusion Multiplier, In my case, I will have to change to 0.78. But I am wondering which way is more efficient for future replacement of filament?

10 Reply by OneMoreCast (edited by OneMoreCast 2015-03-04 18:30:44)

  • OneMoreCast
  • OneMoreCast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Long Island, NY
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 334

Re: Rough surface problem

You can change steps through EEPROM. The correct way to fix it is change steps, changing extrusion multiplier is just like flow rate not addressing real problem. What are your current steps per mm for extruder?

"All your base are belong to us." SD4 with a RUMBA, supernight PS, 40mm fan on X motor, lawsey carriages with new better tolerance rods, flanged rear bearings, new NEMA 17 with leadscrew on Z-Axis, and e3d v6 with MK5.


Ward and Jago are my heroes tongue

OneMoreCast's Website

11 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

I am having trouble finding EEPROM, Do you know where to download it? Or I can open in Repetier Host, but I didn't find it. I downloaded arduino 00-22, which is mentioned in the Extruder Calibration Video, and I am still installing it right now.

12 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

Never mind, I found that in the Config.

13 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

I changed the steps per mm to 107.8, and test printed a cube without infill, I got 0.56mm thickness on the wall, and then I changed the extrusion multiplier to 0.75 to match 0.42mm thickness for single parameter extrusion. I finally ended with 0.42mm thickness!
Succeeded! I am going to test print some parts now and see if the problem is actually solved!

Thank you so much guys!

14 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,624

Re: Rough surface problem

That's great but I am rather certain that came with a .40 nozzle.
I am also certain that the WIKI isn't broken. 
http://www.soliwiki.com/Calibration_of_the_flow_rate
And if this is true then you also want to look at your extrusion widths as well.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

15 Reply by zqfrancis

  • zqfrancis
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-02-25
  • Posts: 23

Re: Rough surface problem

I have test printed one part with support material, the result was kind of terrible. It misaligned again during the printing process. I have included the photo. I can see the printed thread was accurate enough, and there's not too much deep trench created. I know it's not over extruding, but still, the problem happened.

And I just did a print, with two raft layers. the second extruder always hits the material and raised the nozzle level for both extruder. this made everything worse, because the extruded material can not stick properly to the bed, and made the thread thinner than normal width, so the threads can not bond together. I have also included the photo.

Has anyone experienced this before? I am thinking maybe the two extruders are not leveled.

Thank you for your help!!

Post's attachments

misalignment.JPG
misalignment.JPG 1.85 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

misalignment2.JPG
misalignment2.JPG 1.43 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

second extruder problem.JPG
second extruder problem.JPG 1.95 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

16 Reply by OneMoreCast

  • OneMoreCast
  • OneMoreCast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Long Island, NY
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 334

Re: Rough surface problem

Download cura and slice and print w that in RH...i had problems w Slic3r for bit. Do a simple print that was giving you probs see what Cura does

"All your base are belong to us." SD4 with a RUMBA, supernight PS, 40mm fan on X motor, lawsey carriages with new better tolerance rods, flanged rear bearings, new NEMA 17 with leadscrew on Z-Axis, and e3d v6 with MK5.


Ward and Jago are my heroes tongue

OneMoreCast's Website

17 Reply by OneMoreCast

  • OneMoreCast
  • OneMoreCast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Long Island, NY
  • Registered: 2015-01-02
  • Posts: 334

Re: Rough surface problem

Can you update load config...not the settings but actual files

"All your base are belong to us." SD4 with a RUMBA, supernight PS, 40mm fan on X motor, lawsey carriages with new better tolerance rods, flanged rear bearings, new NEMA 17 with leadscrew on Z-Axis, and e3d v6 with MK5.


Ward and Jago are my heroes tongue

OneMoreCast's Website

18 Reply by w_smith

  • w_smith
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2014-11-23
  • Posts: 97

Re: Rough surface problem

No expert, but it really looks like overextruding.  Pull the second extruder all the way up out of the way and calibrate the first one properly first before proceeding.