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Topic: Slow ABS extrusion

Hi all!  It has been a while since I've posted here, but that's more or less a good thing - my Solidoodle and Filastruder have been working without any particularly difficult issues!  Until today:

I started extruding some MG94 ABS as usual and once it ran nearly empty I added some more pellets but with blue ABS masterbatch (from OSP) in a 50:1 ratio.  I never turned the Filastruder off during the process and it produced filament at its normal rate for a bit after the color worked its way into the filament.  Now, the rate has drastically decreased (7-8mm/min) and I think the motor is making more noise than usual.  I increased the temperature to 190C, but it appeared to have no effect on extrusion whatsoever.  The motor never stalled and the auger and barrel appear to be in place.  Any ideas what is causing this?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

Check out DIY Filament materials section

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/8521/abs … ly-source/

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

This is a tricky problem. It is the only problem I don't understand fully, as it has impacted about 10 customers so far, or roughly 0.5% of all Filastruder users. That makes it tough to collect data on and diagnose. I'll try to explain, distinguishing that which I know to be true from that which is speculation.

This part is factual:

Colorant/masterbatch is hard to come by in the small amounts we need - companies typically sell this stuff by the truckload. Often times distributors (such as OSP, etc) are able to pick up surplus masterbatch/colorant from companies that go out of business, etc.

This is mostly theoretical, just going on what little evidence I have:

It seems as though some companies sell master batch that is "universal" or "for ABS", but may not actually be universal or ABS. For instance, there are some "universal" colorants that won't melt at PLA temperatures. In about half of those cases, folks ran glow in the dark blue masterbatch just prior to experiencing the slowdown. My theory is that this masterbatch sticks to the walls of the barrel and reduces friction, which reduces the pressure the extruder can build.

The fix:

Some folks run straight ABS (no colorant) for a while and let it clear itself.
Some folks pull the nozzle and pull out as much polymer as possible with needle nose pliers with the hotend hot. 
Some folks remove the hotend, heat to temperature, and pull the auger out.
Some folks soak the whole hotend in acetone for a week to soften the ABS and dissolve it.
Some folks have used a blowtorch to carbonize everything (i don't recommend this).

The last resort is replacing the barrel/auger. If you decide on that route, get in touch via the website contact form. In the future, it is probably best to stick to colorants that have been reviewed well. Some just aren't suitable for our uses.

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

I'll give one of those a shot.  I assumed that since I bought it from OSP (where I also bought my ABS from) it would be fine.

Thank you!

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

This is why I'm  interested in the methods of making your own masterbatch with powdered pigments.  I don't know how much effect the pigment will have on extrusion but at least you know the carrier is MG94.

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

I've been attempting to purge it over the past few hours and progress is slow.  It is, however extruding steadily at about 8mm/min which is a lot better than 0mm/min tongue

I tried holding the coupling between the motor and auger in place with my hand to force the motor to work a little harder and as the lubrication-behaving-masterbatch theory would support, the sound returned to normal.  The auger definitely requires less torque rotate now than earlier with only ABS.

I have some glow in the dark (blueish colored) ABS masterbatch from when OSP was "going out of business" which I haven't gotten around to using yet but have planned on trying.  Is that one that the stuff you were referring to that has been causing issues?

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

Yeah, the reason it's requiring less torque to rotate is the masterbatch has coated the internal walls of the barrel. The pressure an extruder can build is governed by this equation:

http://i.imgur.com/ORb3ZxW.gif

where f_b is the barrel to polymer dynamic COF, and f_s is the screw to polymer dynamic COF, and COF is coefficient of friction.

If the barrel to polymer COF drops and/or the screw to polymer COF increases, the pressure built will decrease, the output rate will decrease, and the torque required will decrease.

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

Since my last post I've removed the barrel and auger.  I've cleaned the inside of the barrel and the auger as well as I can with needle-nose pliers and couldn't see any plastic left in either part.  Almost all the plastic came out without a problem!  It worked for a little extruding plain MG94 at about 2"/minute, but quickly regressed to its old contaminated rate of nearly zero.  What filament it did output was white, not blue.  I tried soaking some of the masterbatch pellets in Acetone earlier today and was disappointed to not see them dissolve like the ABS.  This thread interests me, as I feel I have exausted your earlier list of possible solutions: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/9783/fir … r-renewal/  I might try it tomorrow as I urgently need my Filastruder working by the end of the week.

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Re: Slow ABS extrusion

Cleaning with needle nose pliers isn't going to be enough if the problem was bad masterbatch. There's a fine layer coating on the walls of the barrel. The solutions there are fire, soaking in something that dissolves it, somehow scrubbing it, or a new barrel.

Yeah, not dissolving in Acetone is an indicator that it isn't an ABS carrier.