1 Topic by redbarret

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Topic: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

My initial tests seem to give surprisingly decent results with 100 micron extrusion width and 100 micron layer height with my 400 micron nozzle and stock Solidoodle 4 (except the motor shaft bearing upgrade).
I tried printing at 50 microns now though, and I might be doing wrong conclusion here from my observations), but the parts the nozzle tip stays longer burn the printed ABS.
I use ABS with no colorant and those parts are decomposed and deformed and darkened (grey/brown).

If anyone has experience with sub-100 micron printing give any tips here?

It seems the diameter of the tip of the nozzle is the same regardless of the diameter of the nozzle hole, so switching to lower diameter hole nozzle will just increase my chance of clogs, right, and not decrease chance of burning as hot surface is still the same.

Will adding a fan help? Kind of hard imagining that a fan will help for preventing overheating parts which are under the nozzle and so unaffected by the blowing air.

Increasing printing speed would help with overheating but then I'd loose accuracy and for printing miniatures it's more important than regular sized prints.

BTW, I'm using Slic3r and Solidoodle 4.

Solidoodle 4

2 Reply by AZERATE

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

Use a fan and print larger parts. Even when printing ABS, the longer the nozzle sits over recently extruded material, more longer it will take to cool, giving it poor quality, and can char the print as well. Don't worry about fiddling with speeds for now. Just add a fan and go from there. There are many designs on Thingiverse.

Any time you change to a different nozzle size, you have to make adjustments or you will risk jams, clogs, or poor quality. Of course, if you want to print small, printing with a 1mm nozzle would not give good results on most jobs.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

3 Reply by redbarret

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

AZERATE wrote:

Use a fan and print larger parts

Thanks. but the second suggestion isn't really a solution now is it? Who prints large stuff under 100 microns? That will take days.

BTW, is there any gallery or thread with photos of sub 100 micron prints? I could use it as reference to how far I am from good yet possible results.

Solidoodle 4

4 Reply by AZERATE (edited by AZERATE 2015-02-22 22:47:47)

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

First of all, if you actually look around on the forum, some people have. In one of my (probably first 100) posts, I asked about this, though never posted results. I printed a part at .07 layer height. I had fair results, but the time it took is beyond my level of patience.

Second, if you want a gallery, Google search it. The search feature here can be useful, but not for images.

Finally, if you have no interest in printing below .1, what is the purpose of this thread? There are many users (here and abroad) who have had great success with this, so my question is: are you attempting this with poor results and asking for advice? Or are you looking for reading material?

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

5 Reply by redbarret

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

AZERATE wrote:

Finally, if you have no interest in printing below .1

Hold on now, I didn't say I have no interest in printing below 100 microns (I do, hence this thread), I asked who prints large parts at that resolution because of the speed. And that wasn't a rhetorical question.

I'd love to see your results or anyone else's printing sub-.1mm with their Solidoodle. Not much luck with google and the forum search engine.

BTW, would you consider fan blowing from one side adequate from your experience or would you suggest a two opposite side fans like on the Ultimaker?

Solidoodle 4

6 Reply by AZERATE

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

redbarret wrote:

Hold on now, I didn't say I have no interest in printing below 100 microns (I do, hence this thread), I asked who prints large parts at that resolution because of the speed. And that wasn't a rhetorical question.

I'd love to see your results or anyone else's printing sub-.1mm with their Solidoodle. Not much luck with google and the forum search engine.

BTW, would you consider fan blowing from one side adequate from your experience or would you suggest a two opposite side fans like on the Ultimaker?

Unfortunately that printed part is no longer in my possession, so I can't show and tell.
Yes, printing smaller than .1mm takes longer, but those settings are more for cosmetics. i.e. printing a part to pitch to investors
Invest in the E3D with the Volcano and you can lower your printing time significantly if time is the only thing holding you back. smile

There are many many many fan mounts on Thingiverse like I said previously. If needed, you can use a desk fan blowing from the side, yes. But using a fan (or two) mount actively cooling directly on the the extruded filament works best. I've tried both, and the latter works best.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

7 Reply by jagowilson

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

Here's one
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:621383
Specifically for the 4

8 Reply by redbarret (edited by redbarret 2015-02-23 00:53:20)

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

AZERATE wrote:

es, printing smaller than .1mm takes longer, but those settings are more for cosmetics. i.e. printing a part to pitch to investors
Invest in the E3D with the Volcano and you can lower your printing time significantly if time is the only thing holding you back. smile

I just want to print small things at sub 100 micron resolution.
So the suggestion to print larger things isn't really a solution.

use a desk fan blowing from the side, yes.

A desk fan? I didnt mean that. i just meant a fan mounted on one side of the extruder (and so blowing from only one side).

jagowilson wrote:

Here's one
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:621383
Specifically for the 4

It's for E3D, not stock hotend right?

I'm just going to assume then that 1 fan blowing from 1 side is adequate which was my question.

Solidoodle 4

9 Reply by jagowilson (edited by jagowilson 2015-02-23 01:13:25)

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

One thing I can tell you for sure, if you have that as a goal you will really, really want an e3d

. You may also need to consider smaller nozzles depending on how "small" you want to go (next sizes down from 0.4mm are 0.35mm and 0.25mm, I believe, at least from e3d and filastruder). The e3d makes swapping nozzles pretty trivial. Fine detailed work requires an accurate hotend.

10 Reply by redbarret (edited by redbarret 2015-02-23 01:41:46)

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

jagowilson wrote:

One thing I can tell you for sure, if you have that as a goal you will really, really want an e3d

I'm not sure about that. I personally don't have issue with the stock printrbot style hotend . i know you switched to E3D pretty soon on your SD and maybe were having problems with stock hotend, but meh.
Except for higher supported temp (meaning more supported filaments), I don't see a reason to use it personally. And the stock hotend actually extrudes faster, so yeah.

Fine detailed work requires an accurate hotend.

I'm still making test  prints, but a 0.4mm nozzle seems to be able to print 0.1mm diameter by squishing the filament coming out accordingly. Since smaller hole increases the chance of clog from smaller impurity in filament, I wouldn't try that out yet either.

Solidoodle 4

11 Reply by n2ri

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

redbarret wrote:
AZERATE wrote:

Finally, if you have no interest in printing below .1

Hold on now, I didn't say I have no interest in printing below 100 microns (I do, hence this thread), I asked who prints large parts at that resolution because of the speed. And that wasn't a rhetorical question.

I'd love to see your results or anyone else's printing sub-.1mm with their Solidoodle. Not much luck with google and the forum search engine.

BTW, would you consider fan blowing from one side adequate from your experience or would you suggest a two opposite side fans like on the Ultimaker?


umm why would you print large prints at that fine of resolution for speed? its gonna take many times longer. now if ya want tiny prints with fine details like I mostly print "speed" is not the goal. and you want lots smaller nozzle also for vertical details.
this has been kicked around lots in many topics here b4. back when you where messing with perfect circles. some searching if your serious about it.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

12 Reply by redbarret (edited by redbarret 2015-02-23 07:51:12)

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

n2ri wrote:
redbarret wrote:

I asked who prints large parts at that resolution because of the speed.

umm why would you print large prints at that fine of resolution for speed?

I dont understand how this is confusing...
Rephrased:
"I asked why anyone would print large parts at <100 micron resolution. The speed will be an issue.".
My reply to AZERATE suggesting to print larger parts to not get charring.

I already replied about the nozzle diameter thing.

Please link to a thread or post talking about this you say exists. I can't find it.

Solidoodle 4

13 Reply by lueman

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Re: anyone experienced with sub-100 micron printing?

I'm printing at .05mm consistently, I found I have to start slower and with my fan at 30% for first layer or it won't stick, Then I let the Gcode control the fan automatically after that. Your bed cal. have to be spot-on and I run the E3D at 10 deg. higher than at .3...etc.

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!