1 Topic by curlrup

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Topic: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

So last night my stock Davinci 1.0 had thermal run away.  The hot end heated up so much that the smell of burning plastic woke up my wife. Nothing was on fire but the machine was building parts with brown vitrified plastic and was obviously too hot.  I thought XYZ had a shut off built into firmware to combat this.  So obviously it is the cable going to the mother board from the extruder board.  because the part had stripes of brown plastic and not brown and then the last inch or so it was all brown.  So the problem was intermittent.
If Repetier has firmware controls to shut it down when there is no thermister activity I think it is time for an upgrade.

Thanks

2 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Does the extruder now heat up on its own when you simply power on the machine?  If so, that could be a mosfet failure in the "on" condition and you would need a new control board.

Btw, you are very lucky...although not always practical, unattended printing is not advised for this very reason!

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3 Reply by curlrup

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

It works perfectly fine now.  Turns on comes to temp, shuts off.  Works fine.  I really think it is another shorted cable.  Since I have replaced almost every other cable in the machine because of shorts.  If thermal shut off is in the firmware it should watch for not seeing temps rise or so much above the set point.  I know certain flavors of Marlin and Sailfish have that feature.  Wondering if Repetier Firmware has this feature so I can print in peace.

4 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

curlrup wrote:

It works perfectly fine now.  Turns on comes to temp, shuts off.  Works fine.  I really think it is another shorted cable.  Since I have replaced almost every other cable in the machine because of shorts.  If thermal shut off is in the firmware it should watch for not seeing temps rise or so much above the set point.  I know certain flavors of Marlin and Sailfish have that feature.  Wondering if Repetier Firmware has this feature so I can print in peace.


This should answer your question. Taken from copy of Repetier although I use Marlin when I can.

// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.
// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!
#define MAXTEMP 260

/** Extreme values to detect defect thermistors. */
#define MIN_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE -10
#define MAX_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE 300

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

5 Reply by curlrup

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Great.  Thanks for this.  So it will protect for a stuck mosfet, and the later code will looks for extreme misreadings that could be a bad thermister. 

I have very limited knowledge in coding.  Is there a way to put some lines in that state if it is calling for a temp and that temp is not reached after a set amount of time it will abort heating ad the build?  Would seem simple to add.  Although again I knwo very little about coding. 


carl_m1968 wrote:
curlrup wrote:

It works perfectly fine now.  Turns on comes to temp, shuts off.  Works fine.  I really think it is another shorted cable.  Since I have replaced almost every other cable in the machine because of shorts.  If thermal shut off is in the firmware it should watch for not seeing temps rise or so much above the set point.  I know certain flavors of Marlin and Sailfish have that feature.  Wondering if Repetier Firmware has this feature so I can print in peace.


This should answer your question. Taken from copy of Repetier although I use Marlin when I can.

// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.
// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!
#define MAXTEMP 260

/** Extreme values to detect defect thermistors. */
#define MIN_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE -10
#define MAX_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE 300

6 Reply by carl_m1968 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-06-24 00:51:22)

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

curlrup wrote:

Great.  Thanks for this.  So it will protect for a stuck mosfet, and the later code will looks for extreme misreadings that could be a bad thermister. 

I have very limited knowledge in coding.  Is there a way to put some lines in that state if it is calling for a temp and that temp is not reached after a set amount of time it will abort heating ad the build?  Would seem simple to add.  Although again I knwo very little about coding. 


carl_m1968 wrote:
curlrup wrote:

It works perfectly fine now.  Turns on comes to temp, shuts off.  Works fine.  I really think it is another shorted cable.  Since I have replaced almost every other cable in the machine because of shorts.  If thermal shut off is in the firmware it should watch for not seeing temps rise or so much above the set point.  I know certain flavors of Marlin and Sailfish have that feature.  Wondering if Repetier Firmware has this feature so I can print in peace.


This should answer your question. Taken from copy of Repetier although I use Marlin when I can.

// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.
// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!
#define MAXTEMP 260

/** Extreme values to detect defect thermistors. */
#define MIN_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE -10
#define MAX_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE 300


They are already there. the temp has to stay in a certain zone for X amount of time before printing will start. If it cannot be kept in that zone/range then it will not start printing.

/** Temperature range for target temperature to hold in M109 command. 5 means +/-5 degC

Uncomment define to force the temperature into the range for given watchperiod.
*/
//#define TEMP_HYSTERESIS 5

So unless temp stays within +/- 5 degrees of set point printing will not start. Of course that could be set to any range such as 10 or even 2. But at 2 you may never print seeing as how unstable some of these units are.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7 Reply by curlrup

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Awesome. Thanks.  I appreciate it.


curlrup wrote:

Great.  Thanks for this.  So it will protect for a stuck mosfet, and the later code will looks for extreme misreadings that could be a bad thermister. 

I have very limited knowledge in coding.  Is there a way to put some lines in that state if it is calling for a temp and that temp is not reached after a set amount of time it will abort heating ad the build?  Would seem simple to add.  Although again I knwo very little about coding. 


carl_m1968 wrote:
curlrup wrote:

It works perfectly fine now.  Turns on comes to temp, shuts off.  Works fine.  I really think it is another shorted cable.  Since I have replaced almost every other cable in the machine because of shorts.  If thermal shut off is in the firmware it should watch for not seeing temps rise or so much above the set point.  I know certain flavors of Marlin and Sailfish have that feature.  Wondering if Repetier Firmware has this feature so I can print in peace.


This should answer your question. Taken from copy of Repetier although I use Marlin when I can.

// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.
// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!
#define MAXTEMP 260

/** Extreme values to detect defect thermistors. */
#define MIN_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE -10
#define MAX_DEFECT_TEMPERATURE 300

8 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

curlrup wrote:

Great.  Thanks for this.  So it will protect for a stuck mosfet, and the later code will looks for extreme misreadings that could be a bad thermister.

FYI...Thermal runaway and maxtemp settings do offer some level of protection, but NOTHING will shut down your heater if a mosfet has failed in the ON condition...in that situation, if the printer is plugged into an outlet, it's powering the heater.

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Thanks for All of Your Help!

9 Reply by TheBaron

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

One option would be to use an external temperature controller wired to the outlet where you plug in the unit. If the temperature gets above a certain limit, it would completely cut power to the machine. The only problem with temperature controllers like that is once it gets below the limit it would flip the machine back on, essentially turning the printer on and off to maintain a constant temp.

I will have to look into it a little later, see if there's an easy latching solution where it will cut power over a certain temp and run independently to the printer itself.

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
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10 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

TheBaron wrote:

One option would be to use an external temperature controller wired to the outlet where you plug in the unit. If the temperature gets above a certain limit, it would completely cut power to the machine. The only problem with temperature controllers like that is once it gets below the limit it would flip the machine back on, essentially turning the printer on and off to maintain a constant temp.

I will have to look into it a little later, see if there's an easy latching solution where it will cut power over a certain temp and run independently to the printer itself.

I have built an external system using multiple 129C thermal fuses deployed at the PSU, Control Board, and Hot End.  See my earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/6628/fir … re/page/2/

I also have a fire extinguisher set up over the top of the unit; but still, these are just extra precautionary steps and I still never leave a print overnight.  As elmoret stated, the only ONLY way to address unattended printing is to buy or build a fireproof cabinet for the printer...

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11 Reply by TheBaron (edited by TheBaron 2015-06-24 16:33:25)

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Step 1: Buy steel shed
Step 2: Set up shed in yard away from trees on a bed of gravel
Step 3: run extension cords and USB repeaters
Step 4: ?????
Step 5: Profit

And I like your thermal fuse setup. Very simple and effective.

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

12 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Thanks...like I said; not perfect, but I've got my eyes open for an old oven range or just might bite the bullet and build an enclosure out of steel or concrete backer board...

Oven range might help as a heated enclosure (with electronics outboard) big_smile

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
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13 Reply by TheBaron

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Electric toaster oven elements and kiln brick. Keeps all the heat in, and if you don't regulate it all the nice insulation will get your enclosure up to the melting point of your table big_smile Find some DIY electric kiln tutorials and almost (but not quite) do what they say. Sometimes it's best not to follow directions.

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

14 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Maybe I have just been lucky for the past years since 08 and 4 different printers. I think I'll just continue to press my luck. On my Da Vinci even if the head did thermal runaway there is not enough material around it to cause a significant fire. The bed heater will burn through before it can start a significant fire.

As for the pcb and the power supply, if we are to be concerned about those then wr all should be flipping off the master on our electrical service panels in our homes anytime we leave or sleep. Nearly every piece of tech in our homes has a similar supply and pcb's that are powered but in sleep mode all the time.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

15 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Thermal Runaway Shut off in Repetier 92?

Yeah...but when they are not asleep and powered on and running...that's the issue.  Coffeemakers (good ones) have a 2 hour timer circuit to shut them down after they start no matter what...

Anyway, probably derailing this topic a bit...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
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