1 (edited by andersbergstrom85 2015-06-05 21:30:14)

Topic: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Hi fellow solidoodlers! (ouch very corny)

I've been having some problems as the topic suggests and if anyone with more experience could help shine some light on my issue I would be very grateful...

I have had a few smaller sucessfull prints but at the moment for a project I'm trying to print a Sphere that's been cut in two since I figured it would be easier than printing a whole sphere at once (had better luck though trying to print the whole one but didnt work out properly anyway)

I got images and video of the issue at hand

I have tried a few variants of hairsprays,tape and even a sugar/water mix (which actually works best for me so far, proper sticky that one) but it always comes loose sooner or later, usually 30mins to 1 hour in printing it starts to really come off

Using ABS Stock filament, 230 degress on extruder and 100 on the bed, been going up and down abit on temps aswell but never done me any good so far

I'm completely new to this aswell as many others i guess but I'd really like to keep what hair I have left on my scalp so if anyone got any suggestions I'm listening and if I forgot anything just give me a shout

Worth mentioning is that the bed had a screw somewhat unscrewed which I fastened fully but if you can see it always looks like its squeezing the plastic more on the right than on the left, attaching two images of the bed taken from the front where the left side looks like it has a gap where the right one doesn't I dunno, think i've been staring at this thing for too many hours now big_smile

Any help greatly appreciated!

Kind regards
Anders / Sweden

EDIT: Sorry for bad camera and unsteady hand

Post's attachments

DSC_0079.JPG
DSC_0079.JPG 2.21 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

DSC_0090.JPG
DSC_0090.JPG 1.69 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

DSC_0095.JPG
DSC_0095.JPG 2.45 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

DSC_0098.JPG
DSC_0098.JPG 2.32 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

2

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Dont clean your bed between printings. I use a lot of hairspray and also the Nozzle is pushing into bed, so the first layer always is squished. But the dirty bed was gold for me.

Fat kids are harder to kidnap!

3

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

I'm no expert but went through similar issues as you have.

I've tried lots of different hairspray and as I live in Europe couldn't find any of the recommended American ones until I bought the 3dLac which solved nearly all my adherence issues - with bed heated at 100 Celsius.
Heres a post about it.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/11038/if … ng-issues/

You might also want to print  a raft if the software you use allows it with an offset of 10mm or more. I bought simplify3d, unfortunately its not cheap but have not had the need to use any other software since.

For the bed issue it might help if you place the object more to the left or right, more in front or at the back. I get best results when the object is paced more to the front.

4

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

A brim can helo hold things down.
You can find more about bed prep already posted on various topics. (acetone, kapton etc.)

What is your infill set to? Hard to to tell from the photos. Keeping your infill low allows enough flex for the bed to have a fighting chance at keeping the part down as the stresses build.

5

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

I used to use Elmer's glue sticks.  They go on purple and turn to white as they dry out.    In the last month, however, I've switched to an acetone slurry.    I take old prints that didn't work out for some reason and dissolve them in acetone (probably 1% plastic, 99% acetone).   Then I use a pour a small amount on the bed and wipe it around with a paper towel to get it distributed.

I don't clean the bed between prints, but if I start to get a build up from the prints, I'll take straight acetone and melt it all back together again.

Using this method, I haven't seen any adhesion problems at all.   I'll print 10-15 items without touching the hotbed.

Finally, make sure your Z-offset is set correctly.   If you're not set correctly, that will cause adhesion problems.

Note:  Don't store the acetone or acetone slurry anywhere near the printer.   Acetone (especially the fumes) is highly flammable.

6

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Hi guys

Thank you all for the reply's! Been busy last few days

Well I've read most posts on this forum before I posted and have tried most methods with the slurry and hairspray and whatnot but that really doesnt seem to help since all my prints are looking good for the first hour, no adhesion problems at all there but then the print always warps and then comes loose..

@trayracing My infill is at 100% rectiliniear but I had the same result with 50% honeycomb, haven't tried much else when it comes to infill

The Z-offset is as good as it gets (dunno can't finetune it anymore since last soliprint update) but it looks good when comparing it to the tutorial and others

I'm gonna try not cleaning the bed for a while since I've been cleaning it as soon as I've used most of the print are see if that helps when printing on the glass however I read

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/10419/re … erf-board/

and ordered that right away and I got it today, ships faster from the states to Norway then we ship stuff within the freakin country big_smile

So off to try that and just hope that it works like a charm

Thanks again for all your input guys! Much appreciated

A picture of the board aswell

7

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

To me, it looks like as your ABS cools it is shrinking and pulling off the plate. I have seen this several times. This is different than not adhering to the bed.  In addition to trying to increase the adhesion (glue is my favorite), try raising the bed temperature. Also, with taller prints, the layers near the bed will keep form because of the heat from the bed. New layers will set properly because of the heat from the extruder. The layers in between may start to cool and shrink. You can get some hour-glassing.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

8

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

@Morganism

That sounds like something I could relate more to
I'm at 100degrees celsius atm, how high is it safe to go? tongue

I have tried printing with both the door open a couple of inches and the top resting on the door and also with everything closed but same result more or less

Worth mentioning is that I have had some other smaller prints that have printed fairly well but this is 1" and a half in diamenter sphere that's been cut in half (with a hole in the top but never get that far) that I can't for the life of me get printed properly! big_smile
Just saying the base is kind of big in comparison to my other prints

9

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

With ABS, definitely keep it closed. You will get much better prints with fewer defects. 105 or 110 may be enough. I do not know what the software limit is or what is highest safe temperature.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

10 (edited by andersbergstrom85 2015-06-09 19:42:23)

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Allright thanks

Anyhow just tried printing on the perforated board I just linked to (thanks to Bartimaeus) and it's just "perf"ect - pun intended
No but really, same print with almost exact settings and it's golden, halfway through with lower infill big_smile

Started examining the glass plate a bit more and it really looks like it's not plane, like it's warped! Can't tell for sure, bringing it to work in the morning to get it checked but to the naked eye it looks like the corners on two opposite sides are higher

There isn't like an up or down to this glass right? big_smile Holy crap would that make me look stupid big_smile

11

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

I'd be interested whether your glass is wrapped or not. What tools do you use to check that, laser,bubble levels? Mine seems slightly wrapped as well.
Interesting that on perforated board it works. Would lead me to think that unless your glass is really badly wrapped it is an adherence issue.
Just to let you know I always print ABS with the top and front door open and heat the bed at 100. I'm not sure how much higher you can heat it without any damage.
Since I got the spray I mentioned above I've had zero adherence issue on objects with large footprints like the one you are trying to print .

I've added a picture where you can see curling at the corners of the base of the dinosaur.  Nearly lost that print because I hadn't sprayed the glass before.
If I clean the glass using the spatula and then spray it, I'd probably break the glass or the printed object if I'd try to remove it with  the plate still hot. Do your smaller prints hold that well as well?

Not trying to hijack this thread but if any one has any tips on how to get the upper teeth better on the dinosaur. Would increasing the extruder temp work? Printed at 235 degress.
http://members.freemail.ch/paulg/3dprint/20150610_005136.jpg

12

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Wow, printing something like that with all that overhang seems alien to me to say the least
Since I've had these problems ever since I got my press I haven't tried printing anything like that but I'm for sure going to try now big_smile

I can't even see how you actually print something like that dino head? Going to go home and google tonight ! big_smile So as you can imagine I can't help you there, hopefully someone else can

Well, was just going to compare it to other surfaces that I know are as straight as can be, don't have no laser or nothing, was tired last night but going to put it next to the perfboard ofc and post a picture, fairly sure that the glass plate is warped, the way it was printing compared to now

I would ofcourse like to print on a completely flat surface but happy as hell just to be printing atm so will check into it, going to order that spray that you bought, and will try it out as soon as it arrives
My smaller prints do have better adherence but nothing like what you showed in that other post

GL on the teeth issue

13 (edited by paul99 2015-06-10 18:11:03)

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

Here's the link to the dino:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:308335
Printed the skull with rafts  as the footprint to the glass is pretty small but without any support.
Printed the base without raft.
Let us know how things work out!

14

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

I use glass + hairspray and have the opposite problem (sticks too much).  The hairspray gets tacky at the high temperature of the ABS and hardens/holds at the lower temperature of the bed.  If I let the part cool before removing, it will break the glass before coming free so I always remove hot.  One thing I do to modulate the firmness of the grip is vary the first layer extrusion width.  For large prints, I set it to 200% (twice as wide as the upper layers) and slow it down to 75% normal speed.  This causes more material to come out of the nozzle allowing the hairspray to heat up more and get a better grip before cooling back down to the bed temp.  For smaller prints I leave first layer extrusion width at 100% to avoid breaking the glass if I forget to remove it before it cools.  At this setting, small parts just pop off on their own when it cools.

15

Re: Two weeks of adhering/warping issues, could really use some input!

I now print directly on the aluminum, with painters tape (or simple wide masking tape works well too) and I have perfect adhesion and no more bed leveling issues.

give it a try