26 Reply by oscahie (edited by oscahie 2015-05-27 00:27:42)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

carl_m1968 wrote:

I found personally that PLA is much more picky about your bed level and calibration when it came to sticking. Of course I printed on treated and heated aluminum with nothing else so that could be why.

Quite the opposite to my experience... On my case PLA will stick incredibly well to blue painter's tape applied over the bed heated at 50º, with bed leveling just fine tuned live while the skirt is being printed. After that I know I can just go away and the print will 99% finish just fine. Instead with ABS if the bed is not well leveled chances are adherence will suffer and warping will appear (even more so than usually). Plus since ABS prints with higher temps, it's also a lot more problematic to print small parts, even at reduced speed.

In summary, for me: PLA = default material, easy to print. ABS = use only when necessary (i.e. the properties or use cases of the object so requires), higher chances of failure. But of course, YMMV smile

27 Reply by robertf (edited by robertf 2015-05-27 02:25:48)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

I was in the middle of trying the fan reroute on my 1.0A and the board fried so I don't know how well that works.  I do know the stock 1.0A did not work with Shaxon PLA.

I tried a Pico B3 and had nothing but jams with every material I tried.  I swapped it out for the cheap J head knock off from microcenter and its been doing great on very large ~12 hour prints.

I have not tried anything other than PLA, so the design may be flawed.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:850526

I'm going to try some other materials and I'll update if it was a success or not.  It does hang down lower than the stock extruder so you will need to somehow offset the Z with either an extra command in there or repetier firmware.

28 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-05-28 02:56:46)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

For an e3d replacement, it's not quite as tricky as it sounds.  You only need to print 2 parts.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … 51bKpLi_dv

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:707530

The thermister, you could toss the one in the box and use the Da Vinci one.  Might even be able to use the Da Vinci heater cartridge too.



I haven't done this yet, I'm actually getting a cheap chinese knockoff and am going to do some re-work / polishing the interior (they're $14 on AliExpress).  Got some stainless steel barrels since the knockoffs come with Teflon. Going to rip it apart, polish the intererior with a dremel.  Someone else took this path before.

I plan on still printing with ABS (maybe some PolyCarb), but I'm doing a retrofit mainly for a wider variety of nozzle diameters (0.6mm/0.8mm for very fast prints and 0.2mm for detail).



I'd order a genuine one, but they're $85, and everytime I see a coupon deal on filastruder they expire.

29 Reply by chakahamilton

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

carl_m1968 wrote:
mwinschel wrote:

If you have a 1.0A you just need adjusted settings.


Just an FYI since I have not seen you posting before I am assuming you have or are referring to the newer 1.0A. The first generation 1.0A although it said on the box it was, it was in fact not PLA ready and will not print PLA unless you buy the optional PLA ready hot end. Which was referenced in a foot note in the instructions once you opened it. Later that foot note only referenced the website for further information on PLA compatibility. Going to that site would take you to the parts page for the new extruder. So just because you have a 1.0A does not automatically mean you can print with PLA. The first gen 1.0A was nothing more than a 1.0 that they changed the mainboard design and pinout on in hopes to thwart the hackers from getting around the DRM on the filament. So it depends on if you have a 1.0A that was purchased recently or one of the earlier ones. There was a thread posted several months ago with a chart from XYZ that had a serial number break down so you could ID your device and it's capabilities based on the serial number.

You may want to refer to this thread for more information on the issue with the 1.0A.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/9371/printing-pla-10a/

I have a 1.0A I assume newer model, I purchased PLA cartridge from micro center. I was able to print 5hrs (before my hot end gave me issues.) This printer and software also recognized the cartridge as PLA. I will say, that the play seemed to clog if you remove it cold.

30 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-05-28 19:47:48)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

chakahamilton wrote:

I have a 1.0A I assume newer model, I purchased PLA cartridge from micro center. I was able to print 5hrs (before my hot end gave me issues.) This printer and software also recognized the cartridge as PLA. I will say, that the play seemed to clog if you remove it cold.

Likely not, I'm not aware of any shipping with the new extruder.


The heat block is thinner, you can see it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyCdyRvyks

Right now you can only get it special-order with their website.



That said, some people have said they've put some Canola Oil on a little bit of the PLA to "lube the barrel" and then have not had any issues.  Do it at your own risk.  Keep in mind the right type of oil, some will burn.

You'd still need hacked firmware to lower the temperature, generally PLA prints at 180-190 deg C.  At the Da Vinci's normal temperature you'll get jams like crazy.

31 Reply by chakahamilton

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

jnadke wrote:
chakahamilton wrote:

I have a 1.0A I assume newer model, I purchased PLA cartridge from micro center. I was able to print 5hrs (before my hot end gave me issues.) This printer and software also recognized the cartridge as PLA. I will say, that the play seemed to clog if you remove it cold.

Likely not, I'm not aware of any shipping with the new extruder.


The heat block is thinner, you can see it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyCdyRvyks

Right now you can only get it special-order with their website.


That said, some people have said they've put some Canola Oil on a little bit of the PLA to "lube the barrel" and then have not had any issues.  Do it at your own risk.


jnadke how is it not likely if Im telling you I've been printing with it?

32 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-05-28 19:57:30)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

chakahamilton wrote:

jnadke how is it not likely if Im telling you I've been printing with it?

I am not trying to be snarky, please click the video and let me know if you have the re-designed model.


Technically, everyone here can print PLA, even the 1.0's can.

The common symptom is after 3-5 hours the extruder jams because the PLA slowly swells and a plug forms, due to bad design of the early extruder (which shipped in both 1.0 and 1.0A).  I have a 1.0A at home and a 1.0, both have the same extruder (technically hot-end, but the term has somewhat become synonymous).


The point of my comment was to inquire if you have a 1.0A that shipped with the re-designed extruder.

33 Reply by chakahamilton

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

jnadke wrote:
chakahamilton wrote:

jnadke how is it not likely if Im telling you I've been printing with it?

I am not trying to be snarky, please click the video and let me know if you have the re-designed model.


Technically, everyone here can print PLA, even the 1.0's can.

The common symptom is after 3-5 hours the extruder jams because the PLA slowly swells and a plug forms, due to bad design of the early extruder (which shipped in both 1.0 and 1.0A).  I have a 1.0A at home and a 1.0, both have the same extruder.


The point of my comment was to inquire if you have a 1.0A that shipped with the re-designed extruder.


ah ok, I have the shorter "nub" extruder. but since I have order a new single Nozzle extruder I will see if I get the newer model or not. Stay tuned. I did have a clog similar to the video. When I inquired about printing PLA Support, told me to upgrade my firmware and I would be able to print, which I was able to.

34 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-05-28 20:00:48)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

chakahamilton wrote:

ah ok, I have the shorter "nub" extruder. but since I have order a new single Nozzle extruder I will see if I get the newer model or not. Stay tuned. I did have a clog similar to the video. When I inquired about printing PLA Support, told me to upgrade my firmware and I would be able to print, which I was able to.

AFAIK, all hot-ends shipped as "replacement parts" (the $99) from XYZ's website are of the new PLA design.


But I'm not aware of anyone that has gotten one in a printer fresh out-of-the-box.  It will probably take a while for the inventory to switch over.

35 Reply by chakahamilton

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

jnadke wrote:
chakahamilton wrote:

ah ok, I have the shorter "nub" extruder. but since I have order a new single Nozzle extruder I will see if I get the newer model or not. Stay tuned. I did have a clog similar to the video. When I inquired about printing PLA Support, told me to upgrade my firmware and I would be able to print, which I was able to.

AFAIK, all hot-ends shipped as "replacement parts" (the $99) from XYZ's website are of the new PLA design.


But I'm not aware of anyone that has gotten one in a printer fresh out-of-the-box.


OK Cool. Why  didn't just don't start shipping them as stock is beyond me but anyway. I've been out of commission for almost a week so looking forward to getting things up and running.

36 Reply by jnadke (edited by jnadke 2015-05-28 20:05:20)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

chakahamilton wrote:
jnadke wrote:
chakahamilton wrote:

ah ok, I have the shorter "nub" extruder. but since I have order a new single Nozzle extruder I will see if I get the newer model or not. Stay tuned. I did have a clog similar to the video. When I inquired about printing PLA Support, told me to upgrade my firmware and I would be able to print, which I was able to.

AFAIK, all hot-ends shipped as "replacement parts" (the $99) from XYZ's website are of the new PLA design.


But I'm not aware of anyone that has gotten one in a printer fresh out-of-the-box.


OK Cool. Why  didn't just don't start shipping them as stock is beyond me but anyway. I've been out of commission for almost a week so looking forward to getting things up and running.

Because most of the inventory at Amazon/Newegg has manufacture dates in December.


I think they formally started stocking the new design in their store in February, so they probably didn't get added to printers until March.  Later if they had a large supply of the old model they intend on using up in printers.


Did you get yours replaced under warranty or purchase a new one?

37 Reply by chakahamilton

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

jnadke wrote:
chakahamilton wrote:
jnadke wrote:

AFAIK, all hot-ends shipped as "replacement parts" (the $99) from XYZ's website are of the new PLA design.


But I'm not aware of anyone that has gotten one in a printer fresh out-of-the-box.


OK Cool. Why  didn't just don't start shipping them as stock is beyond me but anyway. I've been out of commission for almost a week so looking forward to getting things up and running.

Because most of the inventory at Amazon/Newegg has manufacture dates in December.


I think they formally started stocking the new design in their store in February, so they probably didn't get added to printers until March.  Later if they had a large supply of the old model they intend on using up in printers.


Did you get yours replaced under warranty or purchase a new one?

Warranty is a joke. "Send us the heating wire at your expense, and after we determine it wasn't your fault we will send you a new unit." So I said to heck with this, voided the warranty to try and fix it myself then decided to pay for a new one out of pocket.  They were nice enough to send me disassemble  instructions , so now that I know how it works I will just order parts on amazon and take them out of the loop.

38 Reply by oscahie

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

jnadke wrote:

For an e3d replacement, it's not quite as tricky as it sounds.  You only need to print 2 parts.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … 51bKpLi_dv

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:707530

The thermister, you could toss the one in the box and use the Da Vinci one.  Might even be able to use the Da Vinci heater cartridge too.



I haven't done this yet, I'm actually getting a cheap chinese knockoff and am going to do some re-work / polishing the interior (they're $14 on AliExpress).  Got some stainless steel barrels since the knockoffs come with Teflon. Going to rip it apart, polish the intererior with a dremel.  Someone else took this path before.

I plan on still printing with ABS (maybe some PolyCarb), but I'm doing a retrofit mainly for a wider variety of nozzle diameters (0.6mm/0.8mm for very fast prints and 0.2mm for detail).



I'd order a genuine one, but they're $85, and everytime I see a coupon deal on filastruder they expire.

Just FYI the new Lite6 version should work just as well for ABS/PLA, has the same dimensions as the v6, and costs half of the price...

39 Reply by batmaster (edited by batmaster 2015-06-15 12:35:22)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

Does anyone know what the physical problem is with the stock hot end?  I know because of its lesser volume in the feed tube it doesn't cool well but can you increase the diameter in the feed tube to alleviate this, like with a ream?

40 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

The problem is the physical size of the feed tube and the heat brake. The break takes on too much heat which transfers to the tube. The tube has no mass or fins and it gets too hot causing the PLA to swell. The location of the fan is also wrong. Look at any hot end designed today they all have fins or some method to remove large heat volums.

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41 Reply by jamerfut

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

Also the nozzle is not replaceable.

42 Reply by batmaster

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

carl_m1968 wrote:

The problem is the physical size of the feed tube and the heat brake. The break takes on too much heat which transfers to the tube. The tube has no mass or fins and it gets too hot causing the PLA to swell. The location of the fan is also wrong. Look at any hot end designed today they all have fins or some method to remove large heat volums.


I understand that, and i don't know what the internal profile of the feed tube to the nozzle looks like, but along with supplementary cooling if you were to ream out the upper portion of the feed tube where heat buildup is more common(even a tenth a mm or so) it may mitigate some of the problems caused by the expansion of the pla.  The problem as i said is i don't know what they look like internally so i may be speaking out my ass.

Also i print PLA on my 1.0a, so far the longest print being 3hrs without issue but i upgraded my cooling and put a heatsink on before i even tried and it seemed to have worked.  But i mean if the internal diameter of the feed tube were say 1.8 mm and you reamed out 80% of the tube to say 1.9 mm would that help?  Im just thinking of easy cheap solutions for those not wanting to spend the dough on new extruder setups and having to go to repetier.

43 Reply by scobo (edited by scobo 2015-06-16 19:51:38)

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Re: How do I modify the Da Vinci to be able to print PLA

I'm not sure it's really necessary to mess around with the barrel TBH.
I'm pretty sure the heat issue is lower down nearer the nozzle.
Using the mod I posted earlier in the thread, I haven't had a single jam with PLA or any of the other types of filament listed in my signature.
It took a bit of trial and error to get it right but it's now very reliable even with long prints taking several hours.

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