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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Solidoodle Press → Filament Tangles and Snaps
I'm having problems with my Press's built-in filament holder. The filament tangles, and it even snapped at one point.
However, I think I've solved this problem by mounting the spool outside and propping the lid open. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Yup, this is common and you have the right fix.
Why?
Put the spool flat on the ground, grab the end tightly and pull up to shoulder height. This mimics printing, just upside down.
Note how there are 5 or 6 spirals in the air - and how the filament is trying to twist out of your fingers.
Loosen your grip just a bit, and filament end will twist, removing a few of the spirals.
The filament is wound on by turning the spool, and it wants to come off the spool by turning it.
When it's pulled straight off (no turning) into the extruder, the "wound on twist" remains.
That twist builds up until it has enough force to break the filament.
(try the same "roll on, pull off" with a hose pipe for a stronger demo)
It's a shame because I like the Press design with the spool in the lid - I think the heat helps keep the ABS dry.
But it's easily fixed with a spool holder that allows rolling and your nice looking lid prop.
SD could have tried to be clever and twisted the filament while spooling, but there'd be a prominent "This side up" on the reel if they did that.
That seems like a really fundamental design flaw. Oh well.
Yup, this is common and you have the right fix.
Why?
Put the spool flat on the ground, grab the end tightly and pull up to shoulder height. This mimics printing, just upside down.
Note how there are 5 or 6 spirals in the air - and how the filament is trying to twist out of your fingers.
Loosen your grip just a bit, and filament end will twist, removing a few of the spirals.
The filament is wound on by turning the spool, and it wants to come off the spool by turning it.
When it's pulled straight off (no turning) into the extruder, the "wound on twist" remains.
That twist builds up until it has enough force to break the filament.
(try the same "roll on, pull off" with a hose pipe for a stronger demo)It's a shame because I like the Press design with the spool in the lid - I think the heat helps keep the ABS dry.
But it's easily fixed with a spool holder that allows rolling and your nice looking lid prop.
I did something quite similar, with the spool outside the machine, but positioned a bit differently. Initially the filament free flowed along the edge of the Press, and after just 2 hours, there was a significant build up of tension. I am trying again on a second, slightly shorter print, and using the yellow clip I attached (printed off Thingiverse).
Am I feeding the filament correctly for long prints? Is there any way to prevent any tension build up at all? Is this a characteristic of the filament I am using, or the spool position?
FYI, I ran for just over 3 hours with the arrangement shown above in my photo with no issues. I plan to test with a longer print. This is encouraging so far since I was having problems before just 2 hours into the print.
This time, the filament never left the spool, which seems to be the first step towards a big mess. Any tension caused by the extruder moving around seemed to held temporarily by the yellow Press filament clip (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:711551), and thus not passed back to the spool where it could uncoil.
I'm not even using a filament clip, and mine works very well. In your photograph, it almost looks like the clip is causing some weird bending.
Is it possible that the press isn't a ambiprinter? I just discovered mine doesn't jam when the filament is coming from the right when facing the press but jams a lot when coming from the back. I think it has to do with the pressure it puts on the gear.
I'm not even using a filament clip, and mine works very well. In your photograph, it almost looks like the clip is causing some weird bending.
The extruder is in its home position, so the filament is flowing at an angle. But this is limited to between the clip and the extruder, and there wasn't much tension to touch. The issue I had was several metres of filament becoming unspooled due to the tension build up after several hours.
Have you done a long print of 5-6 hrs or more yet? Up to 3 hours works for me quite often, but I've limited success beyond that.
Have you done a long print of 5-6 hrs or more yet?
I'm currently doing a 4-hour print, so I will see how it goes.
However, I encountered a problem with the side-mounted spool holder in my original post: with the spool being flush against the side of the printer, any slack created by the movement of the print head creates loose coils of filament on the spool, which, in my setup, got pulled off the spool and got wedged between the wall of the printer and the spool holder, which jammed my printer.
I am now using the same kind of spool orientation that you have; with the spool oriented this way, loose loops of filament don't fall off the side of the spool.
I have a spool that lets filament get under it because it's not shaped like like the SD reels. My quickie solution was to cut a kitchen sponge in thirds and wedge the pieces between the lower rim of the spool and the printer lid. Works great at keeping the filament where it need to be. Doesn't help the twisting though.
I am now using the same kind of spool orientation that you have; with the spool oriented this way, loose loops of filament don't fall off the side of the spool.
I did still have issues with this approach. The Press clip I added is tight and doesn't move at all, so the filament will not fall off the spool at all, regardless of how much it twists or has tension inside the printer. Perhaps high tension inside the extruder would cause it to twist slowly in the right direction?
The real test comes tonight - I'm 2 hours into a 9 hour print. So far, so good. Fingers crossed!!
My 4-hour print is finished: I printed a side-mounted, perpendicular-spool holder, and I think this will be the winning design. I printed this holder using that jury-rigged holder made from an L-square and a clamp, and that orientation worked great, so I have high hopes for this new holder. I can upload the STL files if anyone wants them.
My 4-hour print is finished: I printed a side-mounted, perpendicular-spool holder, and I think this will be the winning design. I printed this holder using that jury-rigged holder made from an L-square and a clamp, and that orientation worked great, so I have high hopes for this new holder. I can upload the STL files if anyone wants them.
You should load them on Thingiverse and link here. Lots of people will want something like this.
My 9 hour print finished with no issues! This is using the same filament which fell off the spool during my attempt 2 nights ago.
Here are all the files for that toilet-paper-style spool holder. It took about 4 hours to print at 0.3mm resolution.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:753147
Here are all the files for that toilet-paper-style spool holder. It took about 4 hours to print at 0.3mm resolution.
Thanks, looks very good and simple!
Here are all the files for that toilet-paper-style spool holder. It took about 4 hours to print at 0.3mm resolution.
You could reduce the print time of that to about 30 minutes if you make the two posts separate parts that snap or bolt into the base. It will also be much stronger - I anticipate this could fail because there is some torque on the layer lines.
You could reduce the print time of that to about 30 minutes if you make the two posts separate parts that snap or bolt into the base.
Now there's an idea....
Now there's an idea....
My solution, which is similar to yours, survived a 16 hour print. As long as the filament isn't too tangled, I think we've both nailed the ideal filament feed solution.
For the sake of discussion, why do you prefer a velcro mounted solution as opposed to a free standing base sitting next to the printer?
I am also happy for you that you're not seeing tangles with the filament allowed the free roam the entire edge of the printer, but I am continuing to use a clip which forces it through one spot only in the hopes it will be more robust with cheaper filament types that are more prone to tangling.
I do have 1 roll of filament from China that is seemingly pre-tangled on the spool. The only solution is to monitor the print, and manually unroll and re-roll several lengths of filament to forcefully remove the tangles.
If you guys aren't using solidoodle filament you can just remove the whole filament holder out. There is 2 metal dowels/pins holding it in place. Then drill a hole into the lid for the filament to go through. With the solidoodle filament holder removed I stopped getting cable jams.
If you guys aren't using solidoodle filament you can just remove the whole filament holder out.
That is a very good idea. I just did that, and I think I like it, although I'm still going to prop up the lid so the filament can move back and forth.
For the sake of discussion, why do you prefer a velcro mounted solution as opposed to a free standing base sitting next to the printer?
Honestly, it's simply because I don't have enough desk space for a free standing spool holder.
If you guys aren't using solidoodle filament you can just remove the whole filament holder out.
That is a very good idea. I just did that, and I think I like it, although I'm still going to prop up the lid so the filament can move back and forth.
Drill a 1/2"+ hole and the filament moves fine. Smooth out the edges of hole or use a rubber grommet.
I'm concerned about the chamber cooling off and warping prints with the lid off. Fortunately, one kind soul has designed a top-mounted spool holder for the Press (on Thingiverse). I may try this one. Another kind soul designed a spool holder that fits inside the propped-open lid. That may work as a jumping-off point for a mod idea I have for flexible filament. Once I get my nozzle(s) unclogged, I'm going to make a filament dust remover, too.
I'm concerned about the chamber cooling off and warping prints with the lid off.
With adequate bed heat and adhesion, you shouldn't experience warping with the top open. Many find that keeping the top down increases heat build up in the extruder assembly, leading to the jams.
I do suggest you keep the front door generally closed, as having it open allows for too much free airflow between the top and front, which is probably too much.
Overall, for many prints, it probably doesn't matter what you do, so feel free to find what works best for you.
I'm concerned about the chamber cooling off and warping prints with the lid off. Fortunately, one kind soul has designed a top-mounted spool holder for the Press
I actually tried that type of top-mounted spool holder, but the filament twisted anyway: I think the problem comes from feeding it through that hole in the lid. My side-mounted filament holder (shown previously in this thread), or any side-spool-setup, seems to do the trick.
Also, I have been printing with the lid open since yesterday, and I haven't noticed any deleterious effects. In fact, some people have recommended it because the Press doesn't have a cooling fan, and opening the lid allows for some cooling of the part as it's printed.
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