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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Projects → Air craft aluminum nozzle
I'm going to chuck up some air craft aluminum this week and make a nozzle for my volcano hot end. I'm going to test it with pla then try it with solder. I've seen the idea tossed around and most of what I've seen as being the problem is the brass getting ate up. I'll try this and see if it works.
Why? Nozzles are like $9. Seems like a lot of work to save nine bucks?
Brass and 6061 are roughly the same hardness. No wear advantage there.
The nozzle really isn't the problem. The fact that solder has no real transition from solid to liquid is the real problem.
Ahh I see. i wanna try to work around it and print a few solder pieces. Seems like a pretty cool concept. I haven't seen them do it with a volcano. I think it might work better...or make a huge mess we'll see
The nozzle really isn't the problem. The fact that solder has no real transition from solid to liquid is the real problem.
Hmm so printing solder so niether is gunna hold up. Seems like it's very do able just got to get the right tuning and temperature controls. I saw a few guys make a few crude prints with it. But it just seems like something that could be improved off
Why? Nozzles are like $9. Seems like a lot of work to save nine bucks?
Brass and 6061 are roughly the same hardness. No wear advantage there.
Hmm so printing solder so niether is gunna hold up. Seems like it's very do able just got to get the right tuning and temperature controls. I saw a few guys make a few crude prints with it. But it just seems like something that could be improved off
elmoret wrote:Why? Nozzles are like $9. Seems like a lot of work to save nine bucks?
Brass and 6061 are roughly the same hardness. No wear advantage there.
Metals are very hard to print, unlike plastics they do not have a transition state. They are either liquid or solid. Because of this while they are liquid they will spread out flat rather than hold a string shape like plastics. Until somebody creates a metal that has a glass transition state like plastics it will be a long time before we can print with them. This is not a na issue of temperature but the very nature of the material. There is a reason why they have PLA impregnated with metal flakes. So you can still get the behavior of plastics but the look of metal.
Just try melting solder with an iron. It goes directly from solid to liquid. Spreads out or forms a ball due to surface tension and then returns directly to solid. There is no in between state where is is semi liquid and solid that would defeat surface tension.
That's very true. Well maybe one day they'll make it happen. I see your point. Makes since why DMLS machines are the way to go with metals
shields1.as wrote:Hmm so printing solder so niether is gunna hold up. Seems like it's very do able just got to get the right tuning and temperature controls. I saw a few guys make a few crude prints with it. But it just seems like something that could be improved off
elmoret wrote:Why? Nozzles are like $9. Seems like a lot of work to save nine bucks?
Brass and 6061 are roughly the same hardness. No wear advantage there.
Metals are very hard to print, unlike plastics they do not have a transition state. They are either liquid or solid. Because of this while they are liquid they will spread out flat rather than hold a string shape like plastics. Until somebody creates a metal that has a glass transition state like plastics it will be a long time before we can print with them. This is not a na issue of temperature but the very nature of the material. There is a reason why they have PLA impregnated with metal flakes. So you can still get the behavior of plastics but the look of metal.
Just try melting solder with an iron. It goes directly from solid to liquid. Spreads out or forms a ball due to surface tension and then returns directly to solid. There is no in between state where is is semi liquid and solid that would defeat surface tension.
just looked this up on wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_metal
Research in Tohoku University[6] and Caltech yielded multicomponent alloys based on lanthanum, magnesium, zirconium, palladium, iron, copper, and titanium, with critical cooling rate between 1 K/s to 100 K/s, comparable to oxide glasses.[clarification needed]
In 1988, alloys of lanthanum, aluminium, and copper ore were found to be highly glass-forming. Al-based metallic glasses containing Scandium exhibited a record-type tensile mechanical strength of about 1500 MPa.[7]
In the 1990s new alloys were developed that form glasses at cooling rates as low as one kelvin per second. These cooling rates can be achieved by simple casting into metallic molds. These "bulk" amorphous alloys can be cast into parts of up to several centimeters in thickness (the maximum thickness depending on the alloy) while retaining an amorphous structure. The best glass-forming alloys are based on zirconium and palladium, but alloys based on iron, titanium, copper, magnesium, and other metals are also known. Many amorphous alloys are formed by exploiting a phenomenon called the "confusion" effect. Such alloys contain so many different elements (often four or more) that upon cooling at sufficiently fast rates, the constituent atoms simply cannot coordinate themselves into the equilibrium crystalline state before their mobility is stopped. In this way, the random disordered state of the atoms is "locked in".
In 1992, the commercial amorphous alloy, Vitreloy 1 (41.2% Zr, 13.8% Ti, 12.5% Cu, 10% Ni, and 22.5% Be), was developed at Caltech, as a part of Department of Energy and NASA research of new aerospace materials. More variants followed.[citation needed]
In 2004, two groups succeeded in producing bulk amorphous steel (actually rather cast iron owing to high C content), one at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the other at University of Virginia. The Oak Ridge group refers to their product as "glassy steel," while the University of Virginia group referred to theirs as "DARVA-Glass 101".[8][9] The product is non-magnetic at room temperature and significantly stronger than conventional steel, though a long research and development process remains before the introduction of the material into public or military use.[10][11]
so the material is available but is the hot end ready for the material?
just looked this up on wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_metal
Research in Tohoku University[6] and Caltech yielded multicomponent alloys based on lanthanum, magnesium, zirconium, palladium, iron, copper, and titanium, with critical cooling rate between 1 K/s to 100 K/s, comparable to oxide glasses.[clarification needed]
In 1988, alloys of lanthanum, aluminium, and copper ore were found to be highly glass-forming. Al-based metallic glasses containing Scandium exhibited a record-type tensile mechanical strength of about 1500 MPa.[7]
In the 1990s new alloys were developed that form glasses at cooling rates as low as one kelvin per second. These cooling rates can be achieved by simple casting into metallic molds. These "bulk" amorphous alloys can be cast into parts of up to several centimeters in thickness (the maximum thickness depending on the alloy) while retaining an amorphous structure. The best glass-forming alloys are based on zirconium and palladium, but alloys based on iron, titanium, copper, magnesium, and other metals are also known. Many amorphous alloys are formed by exploiting a phenomenon called the "confusion" effect. Such alloys contain so many different elements (often four or more) that upon cooling at sufficiently fast rates, the constituent atoms simply cannot coordinate themselves into the equilibrium crystalline state before their mobility is stopped. In this way, the random disordered state of the atoms is "locked in".
In 1992, the commercial amorphous alloy, Vitreloy 1 (41.2% Zr, 13.8% Ti, 12.5% Cu, 10% Ni, and 22.5% Be), was developed at Caltech, as a part of Department of Energy and NASA research of new aerospace materials. More variants followed.[citation needed]
In 2004, two groups succeeded in producing bulk amorphous steel (actually rather cast iron owing to high C content), one at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the other at University of Virginia. The Oak Ridge group refers to their product as "glassy steel," while the University of Virginia group referred to theirs as "DARVA-Glass 101".[8][9] The product is non-magnetic at room temperature and significantly stronger than conventional steel, though a long research and development process remains before the introduction of the material into public or military use.[10][11]
so the material is available but is the hot end ready for the material?
I don't see a mention of temperature, and I doubt those alloys melt in the range of our extruders. Just face it, we are not ready to print with metal yet at home in an uncontrolled environment.
Just face it, we are not ready to print with metal yet at home in an uncontrolled environment.
Easy on the blanket statements there, chief.
Printed with "normal" extruders at 210C/220C.
carl_m1968 wrote:Just face it, we are not ready to print with metal yet at home in an uncontrolled environment.
Easy on the blanket statements there, chief.
Printed with "normal" extruders at 210C/220C.
That was done in a lab, I said in a home and uncontrolled environment. We are no there yet. Also many of these alloys that do print are not safe for human use and contact.
There's no reason it couldn't be done at home. Did you read the paper? The alloy they used just has Tin and Bismuth. Tin you're probably very familiar with, and bismuth is being used as a replacement for lead in potable (drinkable) water fittings, so its hardly hazardous.
this is exactly what I'd like to print. think i should use a smaller nozzle or one of the volanco nozzles?
There's no reason it couldn't be done at home. Did you read the paper? The alloy they used just has Tin and Bismuth. Tin you're probably very familiar with, and bismuth is being used as a replacement for lead in potable (drinkable) water fittings, so its hardly hazardous.
If you read the paper, they used a 0.635mm nozzle.
you could also print with relidium i think witch is a form of pueter (sp) similar to what they already printed with
This is a really interesting thread. I had an chance to use a "supersonic spray technology" from the Centerline Tool shop down the road from me. They use carbide nozzles and powder metals to build up whatever material you want on whatever material you want at room temperature. Recently I printed metal features on top of 3D printed ABS parts from my SD3.
from my experience with how different metals do under high temps etc. in wiring, refrigeration etc. it wont last long since it cracks during expansion and contracting (plus causes leaks when contracting loosening itself when threaded. copper and brass both do much better and is why they are preferred for such uses. most electrical and refrigeration uses have been abandoned due to these properties causing issues. e.g. fatigue cracks in tubing, wire, and sheets at stress points, working loose from clamps in electrical panels causing arching, loss of current flow from resistance, fires... spend a couple more bucks and eliminate extra headaches. the fact its called Aircraft Aluminum should tell ya why. its just lighter weight material. but its down sides is why so much maint has to be done, to find and replace failed parts. also it still corrodes just different than steel. white powder death.
What about bronze? Higher tin content. I don't mind buying brass novels. I have spares. Just wondering out of curiosity
from my experience with how different metals do under high temps etc. in wiring, refrigeration etc. it wont last long since it cracks during expansion and contracting (plus causes leaks when contracting loosening itself when threaded. copper and brass both do much better and is why they are preferred for such uses. most electrical and refrigeration uses have been abandoned due to these properties causing issues. e.g. fatigue cracks in tubing, wire, and sheets at stress points, working loose from clamps in electrical panels causing arching, loss of current flow from resistance, fires... spend a couple more bucks and eliminate extra headaches. the fact its called Aircraft Aluminum should tell ya why. its just lighter weight material. but its down sides is why so much maint has to be done, to find and replace failed parts. also it still corrodes just different than steel. white powder death.
What about bronze? Higher tin content. I don't mind buying brass novels. I have spares. Just wondering out of curiosity
n2ri wrote:from my experience with how different metals do under high temps etc. in wiring, refrigeration etc. it wont last long since it cracks during expansion and contracting (plus causes leaks when contracting loosening itself when threaded. copper and brass both do much better and is why they are preferred for such uses. most electrical and refrigeration uses have been abandoned due to these properties causing issues. e.g. fatigue cracks in tubing, wire, and sheets at stress points, working loose from clamps in electrical panels causing arching, loss of current flow from resistance, fires... spend a couple more bucks and eliminate extra headaches. the fact its called Aircraft Aluminum should tell ya why. its just lighter weight material. but its down sides is why so much maint has to be done, to find and replace failed parts. also it still corrodes just different than steel. white powder death.
Bronze is a bit stronger than copper and better conductivity than brass but higher cost. its strength is why its used in things like Bells and Cannons. also it dont tarnish quite as easy as Copper nor break/crack as easy as brass, and has better casting property's than say cast iron with less bubbles etc that can cause things like a Cannon to explode without warning. it is heavier than most other non-ferrous metals though. so for molten plastic nozzle use it may be better suited if you can find a supplier that uses it for same. as it would fare better under extreme temp changes.
Mitch
i have access to about any metal you can imagine. I just want to make a few nozzles durable enough to hold up to solder testing with out destroying hundreds of nice brass nozzles. Bronze seems the way to go as it's still conductive.
shields1.as wrote:What about bronze? Higher tin content. I don't mind buying brass novels. I have spares. Just wondering out of curiosity
n2ri wrote:from my experience with how different metals do under high temps etc. in wiring, refrigeration etc. it wont last long since it cracks during expansion and contracting (plus causes leaks when contracting loosening itself when threaded. copper and brass both do much better and is why they are preferred for such uses. most electrical and refrigeration uses have been abandoned due to these properties causing issues. e.g. fatigue cracks in tubing, wire, and sheets at stress points, working loose from clamps in electrical panels causing arching, loss of current flow from resistance, fires... spend a couple more bucks and eliminate extra headaches. the fact its called Aircraft Aluminum should tell ya why. its just lighter weight material. but its down sides is why so much maint has to be done, to find and replace failed parts. also it still corrodes just different than steel. white powder death.
Bronze is a bit stronger than copper and better conductivity than brass but higher cost. its strength is why its used in things like Bells and Cannons. also it dont tarnish quite as easy as Copper nor break/crack as easy as brass, and has better casting property's than say cast iron with less bubbles etc that can cause things like a Cannon to explode without warning. it is heavier than most other non-ferrous metals though. so for molten plastic nozzle use it may be better suited if you can find a supplier that uses it for same. as it would fare better under extreme temp changes.
Mitch
yes, but if your extruding solder it can stick to bronze also. Stainless only sticks to Stay brite solder after acid washed and it conducts even if not as well as bronze. just a thought.
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