1 (edited by Dream-Cypher 2015-02-18 14:09:28)

Topic: Pla success and fan mount request

So, my wife gave me some filament for valentines day. She did her research, going to soliidoodle's site and verifying that the plastic she was looking at was supported… And bought PLA.

Despite other threads here about being unable to print PLA, I tried some last night and find it is printing better than ABS!?  I am extruding it at 195°, without the plastic vanity cover, and with the cooling fan turned around to blow on to the extruder rather than away from it.

Each print I have done has come out much better than anything I've managed to get with ABS. The only thing I need now is a cooling fan for the print. Is there anyone here who thinks they could design a printable fan mount or shroud that would work on the press? We don't have computer control of the fan right now, but I'd be happy even if it was always on. I don't really have any 3-D design skills so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed. Also the space around the extruder is really tight .. when going to the edges of the bed it is right up against the plastic frame. Maybe it would be possible to just mount one to blow across the whole bed? I've seen that on some older repraps.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Which brand of PLA, may I ask?

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

It's a very cheap PLA found on Amazon.  "Signswise PLA".  No reviews.  I've only tried the green so far.

I'm hoping to try a longer print tonight.  Last night I did multiple test prints between 10 and 40 minutes with no issues once it started extruding.

I'm primarily using Repetier Host to print, btw.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I'll have to try flipping the fan around on mine.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I flipped my fan the other day.  Just ordered some of this, will give it a try...

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Dream-Cypher wrote:

Is there anyone here who thinks they could design a printable fan mount or shroud that would work on the press? We don't have computer control of the fan right now, but I'd be happy even if it was always on. I don't really have any 3-D design skills so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed. Also the space around the extruder is really tight .. when going to the edges of the bed it is right up against the plastic frame. Maybe it would be possible to just mount one to blow across the whole bed? I've seen that on some older repraps.


I'd managed to create a model of the existing extruder shroud in SCAD and was in the process of making modifications based on it.  Unfortunately I had to RMA my printer so I kind of dropped it but I've been meaning to put everything up on Github.    I'll try to remember to do that tonight.

You're right that the tolerances are very tight all around the extruder at the extremes of the X and Y axises, I was exploring replacing the mostly useless cooling fan on the extruder with a blower and then create a shroud that ducts that output to the nozzle or even back over the heat sink.  Since the shroud is easily removable, it would be simple to swap them out based on need.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I made a shroud like this, but that accepts 1/2" tube. If you want the STL, let me know!

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Sure, I'll give it a try.  Did you have any success with it?

Thanks!

9 (edited by Fredjikrang 2015-02-19 03:07:04)

Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Eh, moderate success. I had the blower mounted remotely. It did seem to help keep the heat sink cooler, but it didn't allow me to print any materials that I had trouble with beforehand. The airflow wasn't terribly great though through such a small (1/2") hole though.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Here's my first "real" PLA print.  It's far from perfect, but i think it's pretty good:

http://i.imgur.com/kQ1SLTT.jpg

Here's the same print I made with ABS:

http://i.imgur.com/abXZPYO.jpg

...

Why is this printer not compatible with PLA?  And frankly, why didn't solidoodle just add an extruder fan and make PLA the preferred filament?  I really don't understand.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

So, I just tried flipping my fan around. It worked! I am on my second successful print with PLA! Crazy!

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Fredjikrang wrote:

So, I just tried flipping my fan around. It worked! I am on my second successful print with PLA! Crazy!

can you show whit a photo please ?

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Sure. Here you go! This is Taulman's new PLAtinum transparent PLA filament. I tried a number of times to get it to work on the stock Press, but didn't have any luck until I flipped the fan around.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I just tried that same green PLA filament at 195 degrees (and a few tries a little lower) and I'm having no luck getting it to extrude.  My fan is also flipped around the opposite of the way it shipped.  I can get a little bit to skoosh out but that's it.  I rethreaded the filament into the extruder several times to remove any deformed softened blobs but still didn't have any luck.  Any other tips?

15 (edited by Dream-Cypher 2015-02-23 01:53:45)

Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Is it shredding the filament or kinking it? Are you able to push it through by hand, if you hold the lever open?. I had an issue at first that seemed to be due to a partial clog.

I do print with the top cover up and sometimes the door open.

I've  had good success with it at 195 and also with hatchbox PLA at 200.

Oh, and also I have the little plastic "vanity" cover removed

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Another print, this time with Hatchbox "purple" PLA that looks very pink.

http://i.imgur.com/o30cSTw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NfdyRf0.jpg

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I can push it through manually but it's very hard to, doesn't flow through nearly as well as the ABS does (but of course the PLA is at around 195 and the ABS is 240 or thereabouts).  The fact that it flows but not easily makes me want to turn the heat up, but I know that just softens the PLA higher up and causes feed issues.

When you change between ABS and PLA, how thoroughly do you have to clean the extruder?  I retracted my ABS filament then used a piece of stiff copper wire to force what remaining ABS that I could out the extruder, and also got a glob of ABS clinging to the wire.  I then dropped the temp and loaded the PLA.  So there may have been some trace ABS remaining that may have solidified at the lower temp?  Once I swapped back to the ABS and turned the temperature back up my ABS was flowing no problem.

18 (edited by Dream-Cypher 2015-02-23 18:25:53)

Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I actually just extruded PLA through until it was flowing smoothly without any ABS remaining.  Pushing it through by hand is what cleared out the bit of ABS clog I had.

I've switched back to ABS without any problems by immediately heating to 240 and feeding abs after removing the PLA.  I didn't want to leave any time for the PLA to get burnt-in.


I think I'd try raising the temperature a little bit and see what happens.  Having the fan blowing into the heat sink seems to really keep things cooler.

The only other things I can think of that I changed that could possibly be related are:
1. I calibrated the extruder steps/mm to around 100. (I don't remember the exact value, and I'm not at the printer right now.)
2. I adjusted the stepper driver potentiometer to reduce moire.  I did it "by ear" and suspect I may have it set too high.  I plan on revisiting this at some point with a volt-meter, because I do get some moire when printing, though that might also be because I increased my print speeds quite a bit over the solidoodle defaults.  -- maybe increasing this voltage gives the extruder a little more power to push the filament through?

Once it does start printing, I have been using an 80mm fan to just blow air across the entire bed... I haven't had any luck figuring out how to make a mount to just blow air on the extruded plastic.   There are lots of designs on thingiverse, but all those printers have a lot more clearance around the print head than the Press does.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I adjusted my extruder trimpot over the weekend...  Mine was initially at 1V so I increased it to 1.3 and it did reduce, but not eliminate, the moire.  So I stepped it up to about 1.5, then to 1.63.  Neither of the higher voltages seemed to help reduce the moire any further, so I may adjust it back down a bit.  I was a little disappointed because several posts by other folks seemed to imply that adjusting the trimpot would take care of the moire completely, but I'm not seeing that sort of result.

Is it possible to eliminate the moire completely or is "reduced" the best I can hope for?  Not to derail the thread, but since you mentioned that you had turned yours up.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Mysterio wrote:

Is it possible to eliminate the moire completely or is "reduced" the best I can hope for?  Not to derail the thread, but since you mentioned that you had turned yours up.

Make sure your nozzle is clean to reduce backpressure. Playing with your temperature and extruded width might affect it too. You can also gamble on modifications: Someone speculated the E3D nozzle might fit. E3D thinks their nozzle profile gives better results. You can also switch to a 0.9 degree stepper of similar specs (near as I can tell, the extruder stepper comes from a line of 1.8 degree steppers.) You'd need to change your e-step to match.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

I have an idea for nozzel fan that will work if can make the next fan connector on the mb to be activated.
i will test when i have finish the model

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

Have you adjusted the other three trimpots? I have not adjusted mine yet but will soon, I have mine completely torn down at the moment.
Just reading on one of the stickys.
E = 1.5V
and the remaining three at 1.0V

Did you have any issues on your unit, loose or missing screws and bolts any of the other problems that have been run into?

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

When your turning the fan around to blow into the extruder is that to keep the line that's feeding in cool?
Would you use it this way for ABS also?

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

johnrn1967 wrote:

Did you have any issues on your unit, loose or missing screws and bolts any of the other problems that have been run into?

Sorry for the late reply.  I haven't checked for missing screws but I saw some threads discussing screws that are apparently missing and were intended to support the bottom of the Z axis rails?  I wonder if they were removed intentionally from all Presses as part of their "retooling" delay, although I can't imagine what issue they were fixing by removing those support screws.  I'll have to check mine out.  I do have quite a bit of bed bounce while it prints, and it did occur to me that the bed bounce might be a factor to the moire since a nice harmonic motion like that would cause the bed to repeatedly get slightly closer to and further away from the nozzle, rhythmically squooshing the melted material slightly as it was extruded.  So moire might not be solely dependent on the trimpot.

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Re: Pla success and fan mount request

johnrn1967 wrote:

When your turning the fan around to blow into the extruder is that to keep the line that's feeding in cool?
Would you use it this way for ABS also?

Yeah that's pretty much the idea, and yeah it still works fine for ABS.  Haven't played with the PLA anymore, maybe this weekend.