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Topic: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

I've tried from 225C all the way to 260C and PLA will not extrude but rather clogs. I have tried two brands of white PLA: Makerbot and GStar. Both worked great on a Rostock Max v2 when I tried them at around 225C. Basically the extruder spins until it makes a rut in the filament and sometimes will wrap it around the wheel due to high temp settings. Has anyone been able to use PLA?

SD Press + Rostock Max v2 owner
Modeling with Rhino 3D

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

This printer isn't designed to print PLA, only ABS.  You would need some serious modification to the hotend for it to work reliably.

3 (edited by jmarsh4087 2015-02-18 04:43:18)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Well that's a huge disappointment then since it says it uses PLA right on their site. If it was just ABS I wouldn't have bought it. Here's a paste straight from the product page:
Standard Features:
• Creates plastic parts up to 8" x 8" x 8"
Uses 1.75mm plastic filament (ABS/PLA)
• Heated Build Platform with glass bed
• Resolution up to .1mm
• 15" x 15.4" x 19.2" footprint (L x W x H)
• SoliTouch Technology - one-touch printing with no manual calibration
• Weight - 18 lbs
• On/Off Power Switch
• External 180w power supply

SD Press + Rostock Max v2 owner
Modeling with Rhino 3D

4 (edited by sigilo 2015-02-18 05:01:07)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Same here, i've played with a broader range of temperatures from 175C all the way to 240 making little adjustments and testing. The results have been widely inconsistent, but it seems that i get, in average, better results around the 190-200 range. The bed at 50C with a thin layer of Elmer's washable school glue works perfectly well, it's the extruder that i can't figure out.

Some people in this forum have suggested that it's because of the poor cooling/airflow design on the extruder assembly, but i'm not completely convinced, i believe the problem lies on the strength of the extruder motor, o rather lack of.

My reasoning behind this is that when i'm extruding (lets say 100mm of) PLA at a temp of 195C, and when the thumping sounds start, i just need to push the filament into the extruder with very little force, i'm almost just guiding it, and the thumping stops and the PLA is extruded nicely.

I've also tried tightening the screw that keeps the extruder wheel in place, it seems to make no difference. I'd be very surprised  to learn that the extruder motor is not capable of pushing the filament harder through, maybe i'm missing something (if you ask, i've adjusted the trimpot already an made sure that there is continuity in all the cables that go from the board to the extruder motor, everything seems to be ok), have you had any luck?

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Here's the thing, PLA, statistically speaking requires much less heat. So ironically, although heating it more would seem more logical, it's actually the wrong thing to do. 190 is about the right temperature. But even at that temperature you will have trouble, and here's why.

I'm sure, like the rest of us, you bought your Press with the knowledge that it'll print PLA, right? WRONG. The Press is NOT equipped to print PLA. Since PLA is much softer than ABS, the excess heat that comes off of the actual nozzle travels up towards where those two skipping gears are (feeding PLA). When that happens, the PLA gets too soft at the feeding point, giving the gears the ability to bend and stretch the PLA line, however not melt it. This of course is when we are talking about a consistent straight extrusion (not a project).

When printing a project, the extruder consistently pulls the feed up and down in patterns according to your project of course. So if the PLA is soft at the gear point, and the extruder is pulling the filament in and out as per your project, this causes Buckling. Buckling means that the PLA makes a slight bulb where the gears are (the line get's thicker at that point), causing the uneven extrusion and thumping noise. Think of it as pushing two lines of play-doe together, they will make a bump/buckle/bubble at the weak point.

Every other printer on the market that is said to print PLA has a PLA fan – Yep, a fan right by those feeding gears, that way, regardless of the excess heat traveling up there, the PLA stays cool, preventing buckling (slight melting) where it's not supposed to.

So, the Solidoodle Press is not made for PLA, although it says on the website it can handle PLA...hmm I smell a lawsuit.

6

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Yeah... can we do something about that?

SD Press + Rostock Max v2 owner
Modeling with Rhino 3D

7

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

I'm about on my last nerve with solidoodle. I have contacted my lawyer, contacted FTC Consumer Reports, and Filed for a Dispute Charge.

If we come together, we can be compensated for these print troubles, lack of customer service, false PLA advertisement, and faulty delayed devices.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Also just finished submitting a report to the BBB

I suggest all abandoned and frustrated customers do the same.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

vansbutsneakers wrote:

Also just finished submitting a report to the BBB

I suggest all abandoned and frustrated customers do the same.


While I understand your frustration, what did you expect for the price point?  If you had paid attention it was pointed out even before they went on preorder that the Press, without a fan, would not be able to print PLA.  The e3d addition, which is a sticky now, should resolve your issue for less than $100.  You likely did not pay full price and a bit of an investment will go a hell of a long way for print quality as well.   Does it suck?  Yea.  Is suing them going to get you anywhere?  No.

10 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-02-18 07:07:50)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Actually looking at their website, they do not currently sell PLA for the press. That alone should tell you they even agree in it's current iteration it cannot print PLA. The Da Vinci 1.0 was the same way. Except they at least put a * by the claim with a very small footnote on the very large box that said to be disclosed at a later date.

You have ruined your chance for a law suite simply because you are not using the material they specify for the printer. That voids your warranty and voids any chance of a law suite you would have. If they sold PLA on the reels made for this machine and it did not work, then you would have a case. But they do not sell PLA on reels for this machine.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

The only PLA that I have been able to print is Polymax. That stuff is awesome, and prints like a dream @ 210 C on my press.

12 (edited by vansbutsneakers 2015-02-18 07:20:34)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Actually, at time of purchase, and in your included broucher in the package, it clearly says PLA.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Oh and what did I expect for the price point? A working printer. Review my other posts and you'll fully understand my frustration.

If you're going to offer a 30 day RMA policy, then stand by it. Not totally ignore 7 emails 4 phone calls to support for 3 weeks now.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

My machine works fine.. I have found the quirks and work around them.  If you are not willing to modify or do any kind of testing and such then this is not the right market for you.  I say this as someone who also owns and operates a Projet 660 pro.  3D Printers are not plug and play.  If you want that, go buy something like a UM 2 or the new Taz 5, but even those have their advantages and disadvantages.  Hell, my 80,000 dollar 660 has problems from time to time (I also pay roughly 15k a year for a maintenance contract, but that is a different case). 

Was this printer touted to be the next best thing?  Yes.  Did it deliver?  No. I spent $400 on my machine.  For the price paid I absolutely have gotten my money's worth and that is even printing with the terrible starter spool. Just print in ABS and be done with it for now.  I have 9kg's of PLA that I am salty about, but you can be damn sure I am going to try and see what I can do to make this puppy print in PLA.  Worst comes to worst, I will buy an e3d, for 90 it is a steal for the quality received.

15

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Point proven right here. In the included booklet. PLA. Clearly we all know why the PLA wasn't working. False advertisement. And ON THE WEBSITE WHEN PRE ORDERING, it said PLA as well.

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16 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-02-18 09:35:36)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

vansbutsneakers wrote:

Point proven right here. In the included booklet. PLA. Clearly we all know why the PLA wasn't working. False advertisement. And ON THE WEBSITE WHEN PRE ORDERING, it said PLA as well.


Well then go ahead and sue them, but I absolutely tell you without a doubt you will loose. Simply put they will drop the old "Specifications subject to change without notice" umbrella clause on you and your case will be over in any court. These types of companies have there bases covered and have an out for these exact situations. Ill bet somewhere in that manual it even says this or in your user/warranty agreement.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

The LEAST any company can do is answer their phone calls and stick to their RMA agreement as stated in the terms and agreement of the manual.

18 (edited by Mysterio 2015-02-18 13:40:51)

Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Actually the "tech specs" section for the Press on Solidoodle's website still says it can print PLA as of this moment.

The Press is indeed pretty good at the price point if you don't mind spending a lot of time messing with it.  But false advertising is false advertising.  There are indeed laws to protect consumers in those situations, and a blanket disclaimer doesn't give them a free pass to advertise the moon and the stars then ship you a thumb in the butt.  I think it's really interesting that so many people are saying "suck it up, it's a great deal and you shouldn't buy it if you don't plan to modify it".  Modifying it is great if that's what you want to do.  But a company MUST have the integrity to stand behind their own hype and advertising.  If they advertised this as a low-price printer for the hobbyist/tinkerer, that would have been great.  But that's not what they did.

Amazes me that some people are so willing to hand-wave that away.  They did not advertise "a pretty good cheap hunk of stuff you can spent two weeks and an extra $100 tinkering around with to get a decent printer", they advertised "right out of the box printing in ABS and PLA".  So yeah you can be happy with what you got but they should step up, acknowledge that they grossly failed to deliver on their promises, and make proper amends.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

carl_m1968 wrote:
vansbutsneakers wrote:

Point proven right here. In the included booklet. PLA. Clearly we all know why the PLA wasn't working. False advertisement. And ON THE WEBSITE WHEN PRE ORDERING, it said PLA as well.


Well then go ahead and sue them, but I absolutely tell you without a doubt you will loose. Simply put they will drop the old "Specifications subject to change without notice" umbrella clause on you and your case will be over in any court. These types of companies have there bases covered and have an out for these exact situations. Ill bet somewhere in that manual it even says this or in your user/warranty agreement.

I wish I hadn't, stupidly, purchased this thing from the US directly.  In Australia, our consumer protection laws have the following:
(http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/t … _guide.pdf)
-----------------------------------------------------
----Fit for any specified purpose----
--Purpose specified by the supplier--
A supplier guarantees that goods will be reasonably fit for any purpose that they told the consumer the goods would be fit for. For example:
A diver buys a watch, which the supplier says will be suitable for diving. A couple of weeks later, the diver goes for her first dive wearing the new watch, only to surface and see the dial filled with water. She would have the right to a remedy from the supplier.
-----------------------------------------------------

Also:
-----------------------------------------------------
--No hidden defects--
Goods sold by relying on a sample or demonstration model must not have any hidden defects.
A hidden defect is a problem that would:
> make the goods of unacceptable quality, and
> not be noticeable to someone looking at the goods
-----------------------------------------------------

That is two of the many areas outlined in the Australia consumer law that this product have failed, entitling me to a refund, no matter the length of time they specify.

I am aware that this is kind of a moot point as the laws in US are different, but I think you usually have that covered by sueing the business, rather than pointing the company to the consumer laws and telling them they are in breach and we could report them to ACCC, like we tend to do over here.

And saying that it was 'cheap, so what do you expect' is a poor argument.  There are a lot of things that are cheap these days, that doesn't mean that it is ok if it doesn't do what you're told it will do.

To be honest, I would be surprised if solidoodle don't go out of business.  The product simply doesn't work without basically having to rebuild the thing and make adjustments for design flaws and there is a total lack of support.  It would be one thing if they were ready to remedy the issues (or at least refund customers who aren't either skilled enough to fix the printers themselves - given they are advertised as consumer devices - or have no desire to), but this doesn't seem the case.  This is totally unacceptable for a business.

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Mysterio wrote:

... They did not advertise "a pretty good cheap hunk of stuff you can spent two weeks and an extra $100 tinkering around with to get a decent printer", they advertised "right out of the box printing in ABS and PLA"...

Agree 100%

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

Mysterio wrote:

Actually the "tech specs" section for the Press on Solidoodle's website still says it can print PLA as of this moment.

The Press is indeed pretty good at the price point if you don't mind spending a lot of time messing with it.  But false advertising is false advertising.  There are indeed laws to protect consumers in those situations, and a blanket disclaimer doesn't give them a free pass to advertise the moon and the stars then ship you a thumb in the butt.  I think it's really interesting that so many people are saying "suck it up, it's a great deal and you shouldn't buy it if you don't plan to modify it".  Modifying it is great if that's what you want to do.  But a company MUST have the integrity to stand behind their own hype and advertising.  If they advertised this as a low-price printer for the hobbyist/tinkerer, that would have been great.  But that's not what they did.

Amazes me that some people are so willing to hand-wave that away.  They did not advertise "a pretty good cheap hunk of stuff you can spent two weeks and an extra $100 tinkering around with to get a decent printer", they advertised "right out of the box printing in ABS and PLA".  So yeah you can be happy with what you got but they should step up, acknowledge that they grossly failed to deliver on their promises, and make proper amends.


YES!!

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Re: Extruder won't extrude PLA.

vansbutsneakers wrote:

Every other printer on the market that is said to print PLA has a PLA fan – Yep, a fan right by those feeding gears, that way, regardless of the excess heat traveling up there, the PLA stays cool, preventing buckling (slight melting) where it's not supposed to.

So, the Solidoodle Press is not made for PLA, although it says on the website it can handle PLA...hmm I smell a lawsuit.

Ah, but it does have a fan right there. Just tragically sited against a blank wall of metal with a few tiny holes poked in it. Am I missing how that would be effective? (I have no specific experience with this sort of cooling, but it doesn't look likely.)