1 Topic by trayracing

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Topic: PLA woes - cold end too warm

No luck printing with PLA using the Soliprint PLA settings. Eventually, I discovered that I can load PLA and extrude a bit, then wait 5 minutes and the next attempt to extrude will fail - thumping from the extruder stepper skipping steps.

The interesting bit here is we can rule out z height, since the nozzle was nowhere near the bed.

Popping open the extruder is illuminating. (see photo) You can see the filament thickened and buckled in two places - in the funnel below the extruder, and again just where it enters the barrel leading to the heat break.

My best guess is the bottom of the extruder is too warm from thermal leakage from the hot end. I don't have a sensor setup that's small enough to sit inside the extruder to check that. Could also be from the stepper, but ths was a cold start and we haven't done any printing by this point.

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2 Reply by mobius1ace5

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

This is a well documented issue with these machines, even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing.  There are some users working on cooling mods for them currently, but until then, stick to ABS. Heat creep is your culprit here

3 Reply by trayracing

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

mobius1ace5 wrote:

...even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing...

That's not the message I received from Solidoodle customer support Friday evening.

4 Reply by Robny (edited by Robny 2015-01-26 14:51:20)

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

mobius1ace5 wrote:

.....even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing.


Also not the message from their website when I pre-ordered

5 Reply by mobius1ace5

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

trayracing wrote:
mobius1ace5 wrote:

...even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing...

That's not the message I received from Solidoodle customer support Friday evening.


LOL, I see it is hidden in the soliprint getting started area: 

How to Print:

Once your printer is calibrated and a model is loaded, select the filament and desired print quality. (NOTE: currently only ABS is supported with SoliPrint)

_____

Either way, it should have been clearly obvious that without a fan PLA was never going to happen, but maybe I was one of the few expecting this?  With that being said, users will figure it out, it will take some time, but it will happen.  At least I hope it does, because I have a ton of PLA that I would like to use ha ha!

6 Reply by mobius1ace5

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

Robny wrote:
mobius1ace5 wrote:

.....even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing.


Also not the message from their website when I pre-ordered

Yea, their website said it would, but their design said otherwise. If you look in the Soliprint getting started area, you will see this:

How to Print:

Once your printer is calibrated and a model is loaded, select the filament and desired print quality. (NOTE: currently only ABS is supported with SoliPrint)

_____

Without a cooling fan on the extruder to prevent heat creep, it was never destined to print PLA anyways hmm The mod will eventually come out, it is just a waiting game at this point.

7 Reply by Robny

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

mobius1ace5 wrote:
trayracing wrote:
mobius1ace5 wrote:

...even Solidoodle does not recommend PLA printing...

That's not the message I received from Solidoodle customer support Friday evening.


LOL, I see it is hidden in the soliprint getting started area: 

How to Print:

Once your printer is calibrated and a model is loaded, select the filament and desired print quality. (NOTE: currently only ABS is supported with SoliPrint)

_____

Either way, it should have been clearly obvious that without a fan PLA was never going to happen, but maybe I was one of the few expecting this?  With that being said, users will figure it out, it will take some time, but it will happen.  At least I hope it does, because I have a ton of PLA that I would like to use ha ha!

Really?!? LOL

I know printing PLA without a fan is difficult but I have heard and read from people that have done it (not from the press), I gave Solidoodle the benefit of the doubt that it would be able to print PLA without much problem (Newb and wishful thinking LOL).  Wonder when we are expected to get a new Soliprint update and I'm sure somebody will come up with a design for a part fan soon enough.

8 Reply by mobius1ace5

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

Robny wrote:
mobius1ace5 wrote:
trayracing wrote:

That's not the message I received from Solidoodle customer support Friday evening.


LOL, I see it is hidden in the soliprint getting started area: 

How to Print:

Once your printer is calibrated and a model is loaded, select the filament and desired print quality. (NOTE: currently only ABS is supported with SoliPrint)

_____

Either way, it should have been clearly obvious that without a fan PLA was never going to happen, but maybe I was one of the few expecting this?  With that being said, users will figure it out, it will take some time, but it will happen.  At least I hope it does, because I have a ton of PLA that I would like to use ha ha!

Really?!? LOL

I know printing PLA without a fan is difficult but I have heard and read from people that have done it (not from the press), I gave Solidoodle the benefit of the doubt that it would be able to print PLA without much problem (Newb and wishful thinking LOL).  Wonder when we are expected to get a new Soliprint update and I'm sure somebody will come up with a design for a part fan soon enough.

http://support.solidoodle.com/hc/en-us/ … ng-Started

About 3/4 of the way down ha ha. Yea, I am sure a fan shroud will come, hell I saw a guy trying an aquarium pump and that seems pretty ingenious to me.  At this point, hatchbox ABS seems good and is $24 prime shipped on amazon, so that will be my go-to until PLA is figured out.  No big deal, I mean, it sucks and all, but I have had WAYYYY worse issues with my larger printer (a Projet 660 pro).

9 Reply by cptskippy

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

trayracing wrote:

Popping open the extruder is illuminating. (see photo) You can see the filament thickened and buckled in two places - in the funnel below the extruder, and again just where it enters the barrel leading to the heat break.

My best guess is the bottom of the extruder is too warm from thermal leakage from the hot end. I don't have a sensor setup that's small enough to sit inside the extruder to check that. Could also be from the stepper, but ths was a cold start and we haven't done any printing by this point.

I've had this happen several times on the Press with various ABS plastics.  In each case it was with the bed temp or extruder temp higher than the defaults, and either with the lid completely closed or laying on top of the closed door.   I have yet to have it occur with the lid completely open which leads me to believe it's an air circulation issue.

10 Reply by trayracing

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

cptskippy wrote:
trayracing wrote:

Popping open the extruder is illuminating. (see photo) You can see the filament thickened and buckled in two places - in the funnel below the extruder, and again just where it enters the barrel leading to the heat break.

My best guess is the bottom of the extruder is too warm from thermal leakage from the hot end. I don't have a sensor setup that's small enough to sit inside the extruder to check that. Could also be from the stepper, but ths was a cold start and we haven't done any printing by this point.

I've had this happen several times on the Press with various ABS plastics.  In each case it was with the bed temp or extruder temp higher than the defaults, and either with the lid completely closed or laying on top of the closed door.   I have yet to have it occur with the lid completely open which leads me to believe it's an air circulation issue.

I had the top open. But yes, it's probably a cooling issue. The heater block is very close to the extruder. Also the clear extruder shroud funnels much of the air heated by the hot end past the fin on the extruder, heating it up. And the extruder fan is mostly blocked meaning little cooling action.

So, if SD doesn't fix the issues, and somehow I get stuck with it, it'll get some ceramic insulation tape around the heater block, and a blower with a meaningful air path over the extruder fins. That doesn't fix the hot stepper leaking heat into the extruder, but it's a start.

11 Reply by vansbutsneakers

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

I got it to work with PLA. Here's how.
The trick is to remove the semi-transparent cover on the print head (It's engraved  "Solidoodle"). You know, that little transparent cover where you can see the gears pulling filament through.
1. Set your print head temperature to 220 cel. and your Print bed to 51 cel.
2. Remove the Semi-Transparent cover
3. Open all doors. The front, the top latch, the filament holder.
4. Click print
NOTE* My room was about 70 degrees.

12 Reply by mobius1ace5 (edited by mobius1ace5 2015-02-08 05:20:48)

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

vansbutsneakers wrote:

I got it to work with PLA. Here's how.
The trick is to remove the semi-transparent cover on the print head (It's engraved  "Solidoodle"). You know, that little transparent cover where you can see the gears pulling filament through.
1. Set your print head temperature to 220 cel. and your Print bed to 51 cel.
2. Remove the Semi-Transparent cover
3. Open all doors. The front, the top latch, the filament holder.
4. Click print
NOTE* My room was about 70 degrees.

How did you get it through the extruder the first time?  I am having issue getting the initial bit of ABS out of the hotend sad

EDIT:  Manually fed the PLA through and can get it to extrude by hand, but unfortunately when I feed it in through the extruder system it clogs up immediately sad

13 Reply by dylantep991

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Re: PLA woes - cold end too warm

vansbutsneakers wrote:

I got it to work with PLA. Here's how.
The trick is to remove the semi-transparent cover on the print head (It's engraved  "Solidoodle"). You know, that little transparent cover where you can see the gears pulling filament through.
1. Set your print head temperature to 220 cel. and your Print bed to 51 cel.
2. Remove the Semi-Transparent cover
3. Open all doors. The front, the top latch, the filament holder.
4. Click print
NOTE* My room was about 70 degrees.


220C seems hot for pla. how long of a print have you sucessfully done? I've done a few pla prints at 195C but after about 15 mins or so I start getting clicking from the extruder and it stops extruding