1

Topic: missing steps.

I'm sure that my y stepper is missing steps sometimes.   During some prints, things seem to shift towards me, or away from me as it's the layers are going up.... sometimes both during the same print, so it zig zags all the way up.

I've seen this a few times so far, and I have to rebuild the part.   

You can hear when it misses a step, I'm pretty familiar with steppers when they are trying to push to hard or two fast, and this kills a print job.

Anyone else see this?

I think I could slow the print down maybe and that would help.

2

Re: missing steps.

Is there any squeaking?  I had some trouble with the front pulleys rubbing against their printed mounts, hard enough to skip some steps.  A bit of lubrication fixed it.  Have you tried turning off the motors and moving the extruder back and forth on Y by hand?  Sometimes that helps things get back into line, or you can feel if there are any sticking places.

If you drive it back and forth with pronterface, does it skip?  Does it only happen in one direction?

3

Re: missing steps.

Good questions Ian. I've had my printer head catch on a piece of material and get out of sync. That caused the head to do some odd things. This almost always happens when I walk away from the print in progress of course, then I come down to a bad print or ball of goo. It almost knows when you step away....

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6

4

Re: missing steps.

no squeeking, I can tell you it's much harder to pull these around than I was expecting.

When my shapeoko motors are off, pulling it around is pretty easy.

I havn't seen it skip when driving it in pronterface.

5

Re: missing steps.

In Pronterface settings, change XY Feedrate to something slow, like 400.  Sometimes it can power through a skip at high speed, but you can see it when it moves slow.  Also try making a raft that covers most of the bed.  Rafts are done slow and wide, and there is a chance that any irregularities will show up in lines.

6 (edited by zimmer62 2012-08-15 13:27:38)

Re: missing steps.

Here's a picture of how a part will turn out sometimes.
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=20&download=0

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7

Re: missing steps.

This seems relatively severe. Perhaps your X or Y is getting caught on something? A video would be helpful.

Regards,
John

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

8

Re: missing steps.

That's the most severe I've seen it happen.  I don't have a video yet, and it doesn't happen all the time, so it would be hard to predict with without recording for a very long time.

There is a difference in the noise of the stepper, a stalled out noise that I'm familiar with on my CNC mill if you push too hard or fast when cutting parts.

The motor that seems to be in question stays cool since it's mounted to the steel case, so it's not overheating.

Here is a pic of the first time I noticed the problem.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=21&download=0

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9

Re: missing steps.

Yeah, thats a serious misstep there...

10

Re: missing steps.

I'm still having problems, I put a fan aimed at my board to see if it would help any, I think it does help some, but I'm still seeing this issue from time to time.

11

Re: missing steps.

Okay, the fan helped with the z axis being squished.  I saw that tip on the google groups...  I was having parts turn out too short, and I think that was related to "part" of why the machine was getting off on the Y axis.

However it's not all of it.

Here is a picture showing the height difference that cleared up as soon as I added the Fan to the board.... however take a look at all those missed Y steps ( that was front to back)

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=40&download=0

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12

Re: missing steps.

Check and see if the pulleys in the front are rubbing against their mounts.  I had some friction there that caused some missed steps, and fixed it with a little lithium grease.

13

Re: missing steps.

I guess I'm not sure how to check that.  I've looked at the pulleys, and there isn't much to them.

Should I take off the belts and see how well they turn? 

When I jog the y axis in the positive direction, It skips steps, you can hear the motor skipping a few before it starts moving.

In the negative direction it seems to work fine. 

This is weird, since I would have thought it would be the other way around based on how the prints usually end up stepping towards the back of the bed.

Could this be an issue with the stepper driver not set properly?  Either that or it's just undersized motors for the amount of torque being required.

14

Re: missing steps.

I had the same issue, take a picture of the S/D from directly overhead and post it and I can tell you if it's is the same thing as I had.

15

Re: missing steps.

here you go

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=42&download=0

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16

Re: missing steps.

Here are a couple more pics of problems.... same part, both jobs failed do to this problem.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=43&download=0

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=44&download=0

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17

Re: missing steps.

Same result but not the same cause.  It's definitely binding in your y axis, you can hear the motor grinding when you're binding, and that throws off the location that the head thinks it's in.  Mine was due to a out of perpendicular condition shown in the attached image, I ended up removing the belt from the RH side and squaring it up and reattaching, no easy feat for my fat fingers, but everything is smooth sailing since then. 

My suggestion would be to grease up your LH Y axis shaft, it looks pretty dry.  (Before doing this step test the tension in the belt so you know what to put it back to)  You could loosen the motor that drives the y axis, pull that pulley belt off and see if you can move it (with power off) without it binding, once you get it smooth unpowered snug up the motor and pulley belt back to the same tension and try it again.

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18

Re: missing steps.

Here's what I was talking about with the pulleys.  See if the sides of the front y pulleys are rubbing against the printed pulley mounts.

http://solidoodletips.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/photo-13.jpg

19

Re: missing steps.

I'll check in the morning, I'm done with this thing tonight...

I can tell you with no motor attached it still seems harder than it should be to slide the y axis back and forth...

20

Re: missing steps.

Hi. I am having the same problem as you do. Prior to this i was having a windows lockup. I had checked mechanical problems. But i giess its python related. I foumd worms in my conputer memmory. I hope it might solved our case

21

Re: missing steps.

The grinding noise you're describing is 100% mechanical, so it's not an issue with the software or the O/S, it's a binding somewhere on the shafts, misalignment, pulley rubbing (which personally I would think the motor should easily overcome) or something of that nature.  I suggest again removing the pulley from the motor and with power off get it to move smoothly on the y axis shafts, can't say where it is binding without being there, just go through each point of contact and see if anything looks like it's rubbing or not aligned right, grease everything up and keep trying.

22

Re: missing steps.

Mine is not software, but I wouldn't count on settings not helping with the problem either... Stepper motors give less torque when at higher speeds, and more likely to stall if then encounter some sort of mechanical or inertial resistance.

However with the motor off it feels heavy to me, but I have no other solidoodles to compare to...

Each axis is WAY harder to move than other machines I've worked with such as a shapeoko cnc router.   I suspect it's due to not as much rigidity required, and as a cost savings measure.   You end up with low cost bushings, linear slides that are just plastic rubbing on metal etc.

All that being said I wouldn't trade those things for a machine that I had to pay 4x as much for.  I would like a little less hardware tweaking though... The fact that there are no heat syncs on the stepper controllers puzzles me.  Having to add a fan to this is not an acceptable end user solution.  I feel like I'm on a witch hunt trying to track down this problem.

23

Re: missing steps.

Have you tried swapping the motors around? They're the same steppers if I remember correctly. If unplugged from the board and placed into the correct port and moved to the corresponding axis, that will at least narrow down the culprit to either the stepper motor, or contact and friction being made somewhere that is causing the skipping.

24

Re: missing steps.

I think I have it figured out.... I don't think I have a solution yet.

I took the front pulley off one at a time.  First the right.  I was still having problems where it seems pretty stiff.  Then I put that back on and tool just the left side off and still stiff..

I removed both pulleys and the axis moves really nicely (as I would expect)

The problem is those bushings and the the back connecting rod...  It's pretty junky if your asking me.  It just doesn't turn very easily at all.  I slide the whole rod to the right, so only part of the left side of the rod was in a bushing, and it turned really easily, as I would expect.

I think my rod is bent some which is causing the binding.  I'm pretty sure a ball bearing instead of a bushing would be better here, as to the fact that it's being pulled against with some force with the tight belts.

I'm not sure how I'm going to fix this.  If I had a lathe I would turn this rod a tiny bit and I think that might help.  Maybe I'll just get some very find sand paper and sand down a tiny tiny bit. 

I didn't inspect the rod yet, but it feels like it might if someone were to grab the end with some pliers thus putting some tool marks in the rod where it contacts the bushing.  I'm not sure that's the case, but as far as the friction goes, that's what it feels like.

I'm glad I found  this, but... what to do, what to do?

If I could find some press ins bearings that fit exactly here to replace the bushings, I'd upgrade those in a heartbeat.

25

Re: missing steps.

Well, I got the machine back up and running.  Time will tell if I actually fixed it.

No answer from technical support.  I would think 24 hours would be a good amount of time to at least get an answer.. saying.. do that.. or don't do that etc.

I took the rod out completely.  I protected one end at a time with tape mounted it in a drill and sanded down the other end of the rod using 120, 240, 320 and 400 grit sanding tape in that order.    This is box of sanding tape I picked up from harbor freight.  Nice stuff actually for small polishing of something just like this.

I greased and reassembled the whole thing.  There is less friction than before, but I'm still convinced that a ball bearing would be much better in this situation.  At some point I'll try and find a bearing block that would replace these bushings in the future.

After everything was back together it works a little smoother, still feels rougher than I would like.