1Topic by JakR4bbit2015-01-15 01:14:59(edited by JakR4bbit 2015-01-15 01:17:37)
JakR4bbit
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Posts: 14
Topic: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Just a short background for me:
6-year Solidworks user (I assume no issues using .stl files exported from SW)
Familiar with gcode basics, but only through co-workers
Mechanically-savvy, not afraid to tear most things apart
Sucks at soldering
So should I buy the Da Vinci, or would my money be better spent on another device? I see lots of complaints regarding sketchy firmware, bricking after updates, and questionable customer service from XYZ. If I have to spend hundreds to make this thing work the way it should, what's the point? Maybe I'm just paranoid.
I'm not against using third-party stuff, especially if it enhances the usefulness of something. I'm not looking for precision parts, and likely won't use this on a daily basis. Some days though, I just wish I could make something quickly that would make my life a little easier in some form. Repetier? Arduino? S3D? Slicers? Where's the "What's what?" for all this stuff? Any things to consider before purchasing?
Any help is appreciated. I'm itching to buy, but reluctant and not well-educated on 3D printers.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
JakR4bbit wrote:
Just a short background for me:
6-year Solidworks user (I assume no issues using .stl files exported from SW) Familiar with gcode basics, but only through co-workers Mechanically-savvy, not afraid to tear most things apart Sucks at soldering
So should I buy the Da Vinci, or would my money be better spent on another device? I see lots of complaints regarding sketchy firmware, bricking after updates, and questionable customer service from XYZ. If I have to spend hundreds to make this thing work the way it should, what's the point? Maybe I'm just paranoid.
I'm not against using third-party stuff, especially if it enhances the usefulness of something. I'm not looking for precision parts, and likely won't use this on a daily basis. Some days though, I just wish I could make something quickly that would make my life a little easier in some form. Repetier? Arduino? S3D? Slicers? Where's the "What's what?" for all this stuff? Any things to consider before purchasing?
Any help is appreciated. I'm itching to buy, but reluctant and not well-educated on 3D printers.
If this is your first, I would advise against this one. The price is tempting but as stock it will not serve you well. It has already been proven that to get the best prints possible with stock hardware requires you to by Simplify 3D which is another 140 bucks. The machine may or may not arrive in the best of condition and may need some work just to get it up and running. Seems XYZ does not have a great damage free shipping operation.
If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and learning the guts of 3D printers and printing then you night be ok with this machine.
Otherwise I would suggest spending a few grand on a Makerbot which includes an on site service contract and 24/7 phone support based in the USA.
As I said in another thread, this is a hobby and requires work and mods to get the best performance. It is not a plug and play type of system and it will break down. It has a lot of moving parts and with that motion comes wear.
Printing since 2009 and still love it! Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested. Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD. Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
carl_m1968 wrote:
If this is your first, I would advise against this one. The price is tempting but as stock it will not serve you well. It has already been proven that to get the best prints possible with stock hardware requires you to by Simplify 3D which is another 140 bucks. The machine may or may not arrive in the best of condition and may need some work just to get it up and running. Seems XYZ does not have a great damage free shipping operation.
If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and learning the guts of 3D printers and printing then you night be ok with this machine.
Otherwise I would suggest spending a few grand on a Makerbot which includes an on site service contract and 24/7 phone support based in the USA.
As I said in another thread, this is a hobby and requires work and mods to get the best performance. It is not a plug and play type of system and it will break down. It has a lot of moving parts and with that motion comes wear.
Would you say it's accurate that I would be spending more time getting this working than actually using it?
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
JakR4bbit wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:
If this is your first, I would advise against this one. The price is tempting but as stock it will not serve you well. It has already been proven that to get the best prints possible with stock hardware requires you to by Simplify 3D which is another 140 bucks. The machine may or may not arrive in the best of condition and may need some work just to get it up and running. Seems XYZ does not have a great damage free shipping operation.
If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and learning the guts of 3D printers and printing then you night be ok with this machine.
Otherwise I would suggest spending a few grand on a Makerbot which includes an on site service contract and 24/7 phone support based in the USA.
As I said in another thread, this is a hobby and requires work and mods to get the best performance. It is not a plug and play type of system and it will break down. It has a lot of moving parts and with that motion comes wear.
Would you say it's accurate that I would be spending more time getting this working than actually using it?
I would not go that far. For what it is it does work out of the box and does well. But if you have been in 3D printing like I have for 6 years you see it's short comings as well and it is for that reason that you will be modding and improving it.
The issue is that XYZ is locking it down more and more to the point that you will have to use their material and it will have to be newer stock as it seems many are having issues with older stock failing validation and the printer will not allow it to be used.
Printing since 2009 and still love it! Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested. Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD. Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
carl_m1968 wrote:
I would not go that far. For what it is it does work out of the box and does well. But if you have been in 3D printing like I have for 6 years you see it's short comings as well and it is for that reason that you will be modding and improving it.
The issue is that XYZ is locking it down more and more to the point that you will have to use their material and it will have to be newer stock as it seems many are having issues with older stock failing validation and the printer will not allow it to be used.
When I found this printer, filament prices were the first thing I looked at. Then I discovered XYZ's proprietary cartridges along with the workarounds for using external spools. If there are workarounds, I'm completely fine with that. I'm not terribly concerned with filament costs at this point. I'm not expecting daily use. If I do get deep into it, then I would consider spending a little money and time to allow use of better - and cheaper - filament.
I feel like I've asked you to talk me out of buying one of these while I just keep insisting to buy. I've looked at the Makerbots in the past, but can't justify the cost for what I'll be doing with it - the occasional personal project. The reviews I've found for the Makerbots are generally worse than the XYZ, the build volume is lower, and the price 6x higher. After seeing that price again, spending a few extra bucks to improve a cheaper option doesn't sound too bad. I'm sure my wife would agree
Is there a better performing 3D printer around the Da Vinci's price point that you would recommend?
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
JakR4bbit wrote:
carl_m1968 wrote:
I would not go that far. For what it is it does work out of the box and does well. But if you have been in 3D printing like I have for 6 years you see it's short comings as well and it is for that reason that you will be modding and improving it.
The issue is that XYZ is locking it down more and more to the point that you will have to use their material and it will have to be newer stock as it seems many are having issues with older stock failing validation and the printer will not allow it to be used.
When I found this printer, filament prices were the first thing I looked at. Then I discovered XYZ's proprietary cartridges along with the workarounds for using external spools. If there are workarounds, I'm completely fine with that. I'm not terribly concerned with filament costs at this point. I'm not expecting daily use. If I do get deep into it, then I would consider spending a little money and time to allow use of better - and cheaper - filament.
I feel like I've asked you to talk me out of buying one of these while I just keep insisting to buy. I've looked at the Makerbots in the past, but can't justify the cost for what I'll be doing with it - the occasional personal project. The reviews I've found for the Makerbots are generally worse than the XYZ, the build volume is lower, and the price 6x higher. After seeing that price again, spending a few extra bucks to improve a cheaper option doesn't sound too bad. I'm sure my wife would agree
Is there a better performing 3D printer around the Da Vinci's price point that you would recommend?
If you just want something to get your feet wet and you are not concerned about quality over the function of prints the this one should be fine. It is worth the price really for the enclosure and hardware alone.
Printing since 2009 and still love it! Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested. Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD. Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
carl_m1968 wrote:
If you just want something to get your feet wet and you are not concerned about quality over the function of prints the this one should be fine. It is worth the price really for the enclosure and hardware alone.
That's a good way to put it. I'll keep this one in mind, then. Thanks for the feedback!
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
this was my first printer and I absolutely love it. lets face it..... if you are gonna be getting into 3d printing you are gonna need some tinkering skills. This printer gives you just enough of a problem that it teaches you just about everything you need to know. the printer itself is a pretty decent machine, it is the antics of xyzprinting that give this printer a negative outlook. I would absolutely recommend this for a first machine just for the fact that it is so simple to print something.
Da Vinci 1.0 stock firmware and stock xyzware. 3D printer Noob. Stock ABS filaments
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
I'd just offer a counterpoint to Carl's input. My background: I'm pretty comfortable hacking electronics to do what I want them to, and I've spent a lot of quality time with the Arduino and Raspberry Pi. I have nowhere near Carl's level of knowledge and experience with 3D Printing - prior to this Dec I hadn't done anything but visit the MakerBot store in Boston.
After doing some research, I both the Duo (dual extruder) and within an hour was printing my first print. I and my kids loved the "magic" of being able to easily create objects and we went a little print-crazy. Over the next week and a half, I educated myself quite a bit and realized I wanted to do more than the stock software/firmware would allow. Couple takeaways:
- Carl's absolutely right about Simplify3D. Regardless of what you want to do, this is a $140 must
- You can have an enjoyable experience using the stock firmware (which locks you into XYZPrinting's cartridges). You'll pay more and be limited to the features XYZ releases, but it will generally be easier to print successfully
- Changing the firmware is a hassle and you'll basically be assuming full responsibility for all aspects of printing. It's a lot more work and (at least for the first few months) more time consuming, but for someone like me it's a lot more satisfying
- If you do put on the Repetier firmware, I would strongly recommend setting up an Octoprint server as well - the ability to upload print files, remotely control and start/stop print job, and view print progress via webcam radically changed how I use the printer and makes it *much* more enjoyable
- I really dig the design of the Davinci. I like that it's enclosed and - while I understand they probably went cheap on the component selection - I don't think anything approaches it until you get into MakerBot prices which are about 4 that of the XYZ printers. The hardware is also hackable, however, and you can view the printer as a framework on which to build your own FrankenPrinter
- This experience has got me thinking about building my own 3D printer from scratch, something I wouldn't have considered before
So, while Carl (with his deep experience) probably sees the Davinci as a bit of a broken toy, as a beginner I found it to be a great entry point into 3D Printing, well worth the $650 I paid for the dual-extruder model. As I get better I believe I'll outgrow the Davinci, but for the next year or two - until I motivate to build my own - I think it's a great purchase.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
In a word: NO!
While there isn't a printer I would recommend, if there is one to stay away from at all costs, it's the Da Vinci. Personally, I ended up going the DYI route, which I couldn't in good faith recommend to a beginner, as the learning curve is decidedly steep. About the best advice I could offer is to make sure that wherever you do buy one, make sure they have a liberal return policy, such as Amazon, so you can get your money back without a lot of hassle if it's defective out of the box.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Like the OP intends, I would describe myself as a casual user and don't print every day. I also don't need high precision and I find the Da Vinci suits my needs perfectly. I'm using stock firmware along with the modded xyzware host software plus Cura to slice and I'm more than happy with the results I get. As an introduction to 3D printing, I don't think it can be beaten on price and quality, if you look past xyz's obsession with locking it down to their own filament which is pretty easy to get around in any case.
Davinci 1.0 with repetier firmware & E3D V6 Lite Anycubic Photon DLP printer, Einscan-S 3D scanner Simplify3d, 123D Design, Meshmixer http://www.thingiverse.com/scobo/designs
12Reply by undrpsi2015-01-16 21:30:37(edited by undrpsi 2015-01-16 21:38:24)
undrpsi
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Registered: 2015-01-09
Posts: 11
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Haters gonna hate..
This machine is a fantastic deal for the money (go to newegg.com...they have some package deals that are stinkin' cheap)...
This machine can be MORE than be a gateway into the hobby. It's an excellent learning tool for the 3D FDM printers in general. You'll learn all the vocabulary words, play with settings, and generally become familiar in the operation of 3D printers. The more advanced printers don't have any magical unicorns compared to this...the Davinci is just a basic printer.
The carts can be a sticking point....I do NOT understand someone who buys this printer (and it's WELL KNOWN that it uses carts) and then trash XYZ for implementing them. That's like buying a car and bitching you have to put gas in it. Duh? Again, if you are using this as a training aid or if other users aren't techy...this is a great printer. Even for techy people (I have 6 other printers) this is a very good printer (for what it does).
Setup?...I had ZERO setup. I madly downloaded a print and hit 'go'....worked like a champ. I started with Replicators and 3D Cube printers several years ago. I've never seen a bot that really was ready to print from factory without some level or heat tweaking....the Davinci has required ZERO setup from me.
Resolution...I think the output on the Davinci is fine. Yes, it's not as fine or smooth as a $1500 printer...but again...less than 1/3rd the cost too. The .4 resolution is also interesting for large / fast objects. I've printed at .2 and, again, it's not bad.
Speed...feels 'close' to other cartesian bots. Faster than the 3DS Cube but slower than my Orion...
I do have other larger and multi-head printers....but sometimes it's great to just have one you don't have to eff with...or at least much. A printer you can throw a print on and 'set it and forget it' as Ron Popiel would say
For the price you can get in...play with it to see if it's for you....then sell it (or donate to a High School which is what I do). At the amount they want it's not a huge risk....
Not trying to self promote but here's a quick unbox / review I did Monday...this talks about the New Egg deal at the start...
Cheers
Jay
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Jay I've owned... R1, 3DS Cube V1, R2, R2X, Orion, Go Large, Go Medium, Simple, Creatbot, Boots Industries, Davinci 1.0, and, inbound, Craftbot
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Don9mm wrote:
In a word: NO!
While there isn't a printer I would recommend, if there is one to stay away from at all costs, it's the Da Vinci. Personally, I ended up going the DYI route, which I couldn't in good faith recommend to a beginner, as the learning curve is decidedly steep. About the best advice I could offer is to make sure that wherever you do buy one, make sure they have a liberal return policy, such as Amazon, so you can get your money back without a lot of hassle if it's defective out of the box.
Hardware wise the Da Vinci is no different than any other machine in the $1000 and under class. In some respects it is better. The enclosure is much better and looks much better than the SD. The frame is much more rigid than some others. If you swap out the controller for an open source controller this printer would rival even a $2500 Makerbot.
Printing since 2009 and still love it! Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested. Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD. Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Well as a new da Vinci 2.0 owner, and new to 3D printing; Ill toss my two cents in. I got the printer as a gift on Christmas and was producing objects the next day. I had a minor issue with bed leveling ( I trusted the "factory calibrated" for the first few days), and just yesterday the right head got a jam that will require head removal to fix. I cant find a video or specific instructions for the 2.0 head removal (there is a nice video for the 1.0 but the 2.0 is not the same...similar but not exact).
HINT: XYZ please post vids of the 2.0!
That said; I love it...its easy to use and fun. I have produced a few large and a few small objects with minor flaws. My biggest problem is with lifting during the start of a print. I will probably spend the 140 to get simplify 3D so I can mess with the temps soon.
It works out of the box, but as with any thing like this there are minor hurdles to overcome ( I imagine that is true with any 3D printer, but I could be wrong). Good Luck
DaVinci 2.0 Duo Latest Stock Software XYZ ABS only 1st print 12/26/14
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
To everyone that has responded - I really appreciate the time you've put into answering my simple concerns.
I do believe I'm going to commit to buying the Da Vinci. The only other option that I was considering, but am afraid it's too much for me at this point, was buying the Prusa kit ($570 I think?). No enclosure, and tons of setup and tinkering. Not what I'm looking for just yet.
I've already spent some time recently building some parts in Solidworks that I want to print, so I guess there's only one thing left to do!
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Any help is appreciated. I'm itching to buy, but reluctant and not well-educated on 3D printers.
Seems like kit prices are dropping. Another option is a kossel kit. I have seen them for $399. Tin
Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
what are you trying to buy ?? Tin
Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
You may want to look at microcenter if you have one near by. You can look at the machine before you buy. Also check out this guys you tube channel. Lots of useful info on the Davinci . https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … Q5Wq4J4vEj
Tin
Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
Tin Falcon wrote:
You may want to look at microcenter if you have one near by. You can look at the machine before you buy. Also check out this guys you tube channel. Lots of useful info on the Davinci . https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … Q5Wq4J4vEj
Tin
I just found that guy's channel last night and enjoyed several of his videos over a few beers! No Microcenters nearby, unfortunately.
Re: Concerned noob asks, "Should the Da Vinci be my first 3D printer?"
I think you will do well buying a davinci.
It gives you 2 paths to go down
1 stock and using the software that comes with it. No it's not perfect, but it's far simpler than route two and allows you to play and learn before getting overwhelmed with the myriad of options that can screw up prints.
2 load in repetier and tweak like crazy.
Ignore all the foolish talk about overpriced proprietary filament. The company isn't ripping anyone off. Yes it's more expensive, but the stock system keeps all the filament clean in a nice case. Swaps easily and is very convenient. Many people mistakenly bash on XYZ, but they falsely assume all users love to build from scratch and want a machine that can be tweaked a lot regardless of how it looks.
You have to decide from the outset - are you buying a printer to have fun and make some things or are you trying to build a printer and then print?
