1 (edited by montressor 2015-01-12 22:27:08)

Topic: Vertical Cylinders

I'm looking for tips on printing vertical ABS cylinders (attached below) and by extension similar tall prints with small bases. I've not attempted this before but based on my experiences I expect these to be a challenge, mainly due to adhesion. I'm currently using glue sticks and bed heated to 100C with extruders running between 230 and 250 depending on filament. I've previously tried laying cylinders horizontally with supports and seen poor results (warping, delamination).

Anyone have suggestions on how to successfully run this?

Post's attachments

coil_large_r_placed.stl 115.8 kb, 53 downloads since 2015-01-12 

coil_thin_r_placed.stl 125.08 kb, 19 downloads since 2015-01-12 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.
Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

2

Re: Vertical Cylinders

I would suggest using a brim and raft. The prime is a single layer of material that can be set to certain width. That is attached to the perimeter of the object and can later be removed. It greatly increases the contact area for better adhesion on small parts.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

3

Re: Vertical Cylinders

I would say that you definitely need a good raft and heavy support.  I haven't had too many problems with stock software ( cant control the temps) unless the raft lifted (which happens often).
"excellent" setting @ .2 layer , normal speed, 30%density
Most of mine are not concave like yours is, but I did a knob shaped like that kinda that came out fine except for the corner where the raft lifted.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46526688/cylinder.jpg
good luck

DaVinci 2.0 Duo
Latest Stock Software
XYZ ABS only
1st print 12/26/14

4

Re: Vertical Cylinders

Still relatively new to 3d printing, never used a brim before. Makes sense for adhesion on this type of print. Thanks for the pointers, will post on the results. BTW - I'm using Simplify3D and Repetier firmware - even if you're on stock, I'd suggest checking it out. Not cheap, but even when I was running stock firmware I found it invaluable.

Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

5

Re: Vertical Cylinders

montressor wrote:

Still relatively new to 3d printing, never used a brim before. Makes sense for adhesion on this type of print. Thanks for the pointers, will post on the results. BTW - I'm using Simplify3D and Repetier firmware - even if you're on stock, I'd suggest checking it out. Not cheap, but even when I was running stock firmware I found it invaluable.

Thanks for the feedback, planning on getting Simplify 3D in a week or so, want to stick with stock firmware for now.  Looking forward to being able to set temps.

DaVinci 2.0 Duo
Latest Stock Software
XYZ ABS only
1st print 12/26/14

6

Re: Vertical Cylinders

I loaded the parts into simplify3d and looking it over I would use a skirt with 4 outlines with zero offset. you really only need 2 outlines but the others will prime the nozzle better. I would run the supports in standard configuration but change the overhang angle to 35degrees so you will get full support otherwise it only will support the holes.  but what I would suggest is running multiple processes and using more heavy infill just on the bottom section of the print so it give it more weight and stability then go to a lighter infill from that point to save time and now the heaviest part of the print will be at the bottom so it will be less likely to pop off the build plate when working on the top .

XYZ DA Vinci DUO 2.0
XYZWARE
Simplify3d
wctek.com xyzerocart

7

Re: Vertical Cylinders

Running without a raft, layers at 3mm, brim of 4 layers and 20 outlines wide, bed at 105C and extruder at 230C, speed at 28 mm/s, 30% infill. So far so good. Initially tried a raft with brim but the brim separated immediately.

Thanks for your help and suggestions guys - barring any disasters I think this will be a success.

Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

8

Re: Vertical Cylinders

Do you have all the holes blocked where outside air can affect you bed temps? I've had better results since I blocked mine, even read where a guy threw a blanket over his entire machine, though I don't recommend this, your machine needs some ability to dissipate heat. I also keep my room temp higher in the print room.

9

Re: Vertical Cylinders

rv.mike wrote:

Do you have all the holes blocked where outside air can affect you bed temps? I've had better results since I blocked mine, even read where a guy threw a blanket over his entire machine, though I don't recommend this, your machine needs some ability to dissipate heat. I also keep my room temp higher in the print room.

I run with the back electronics taped off, holes lightly taped, and a blanket. I make sure to leave the power supply fan unobstructed and away from the blanket. The enclosure doesn't need to dissipate heat- just keep the rear/motherboard electronics cool & isolated from the heat zone.

Repinci 1.0 + Repetier host

10

Re: Vertical Cylinders

rv.mike wrote:

Do you have all the holes blocked where outside air can affect you bed temps? I've had better results since I blocked mine, even read where a guy threw a blanket over his entire machine, though I don't recommend this, your machine needs some ability to dissipate heat. I also keep my room temp higher in the print room.


Temp control for 3D Printing is not that critical. i have been doing this for over 6 years. My last printer was a 3DStuffmaker and completely open frame. No enclosure what so ever. Look at Prusa one of the oldest and still mainstream printers out there. You can't get any more open than that.

My point is 99% of all adhesion and most print problems are all caused by poor bed leveling and improper bed height. The thread I mad with the .1mm prints for reference was done on that open frame printer and that base on that owl is 25 x 15mm and I did not use a raft or brim. It printed for 8 hours and never came loose or budged in any way.


Keep your bed at 110. measure this with an IR thermometer or other method to confirm 110 is 110. If not compensate.

Assure your bed is level or as level as possible in reference to your nozzle.

Make sure your bed is at the right height. Do not use the built in calibration as it does not set the bed to the correct height. Confirm the correct height by using a single sheet of paper that should just drag between the nozzle and bed at all four corners and in the middle. You could also use .15mm feeler gauge unless you are trying to print at .1mm. Then you will need to use a .05 feeler gauge and a single sheet of paper will make your nozzle too high.

I cannot stress how important bed height and leveling is to a successful print. It is the number one most important step you can take.

When I first started printing I too did not believe it would make that big of a difference. Now six years later I know better and have a 90% average of successful prints. The only failures I get now are the occasional thingiverse I give the benefit of a doubt to and not run through nettfab.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

11

Re: Vertical Cylinders

carl_m1968 wrote:
rv.mike wrote:

Do you have all the holes blocked where outside air can affect you bed temps? I've had better results since I blocked mine, even read where a guy threw a blanket over his entire machine, though I don't recommend this, your machine needs some ability to dissipate heat. I also keep my room temp higher in the print room.


Temp control for 3D Printing is not that critical. i have been doing this for over 6 years. My last printer was a 3DStuffmaker and completely open frame. No enclosure what so ever. Look at Prusa one of the oldest and still mainstream printers out there. You can't get any more open than that.

My point is 99% of all adhesion and most print problems are all caused by poor bed leveling and improper bed height. The thread I mad with the .1mm prints for reference was done on that open frame printer and that base on that owl is 25 x 15mm and I did not use a raft or brim. It printed for 8 hours and never came loose or budged in any way.


Keep your bed at 110. measure this with an IR thermometer or other method to confirm 110 is 110. If not compensate.

Assure your bed is level or as level as possible in reference to your nozzle.

Make sure your bed is at the right height. Do not use the built in calibration as it does not set the bed to the correct height. Confirm the correct height by using a single sheet of paper that should just drag between the nozzle and bed at all four corners and in the middle. You could also use .15mm feeler gauge unless you are trying to print at .1mm. Then you will need to use a .05 feeler gauge and a single sheet of paper will make your nozzle too high.

I cannot stress how important bed height and leveling is to a successful print. It is the number one most important step you can take.

When I first started printing I too did not believe it would make that big of a difference. Now six years later I know better and have a 90% average of successful prints. The only failures I get now are the occasional thingiverse I give the benefit of a doubt to and not run through nettfab.


To be fair, most open enclosure printers choose to print in PLA so the warping/peeling isnt as much of an issue. ABS is a little more difficult to work with when it comes to high temperature difference between open air and bed/extruder temps. I agree- having a good level base is very critical to get good adhesion.

Repinci 1.0 + Repetier host

12

Re: Vertical Cylinders

OK, so the cylinders printed great, but the skirt was a pain to get off and while my spool is functional, my settings are definitely not the best solution for this kind of thing. I'll take Carl's advice and make it one or two layers in the future.

Carl - one other question: what speed do you find the DaVinci (or other printers for that matter) run well at? i.e.: what is the max/min you feel are usable? I'm wondering if I'm running my heads too slowly - 20-30mm/sec with ABS depending on quality.

Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

13

Re: Vertical Cylinders

montressor wrote:

OK, so the cylinders printed great, but the skirt was a pain to get off and while my spool is functional, my settings are definitely not the best solution for this kind of thing. I'll take Carl's advice and make it one or two layers in the future.

Carl - one other question: what speed do you find the DaVinci (or other printers for that matter) run well at? i.e.: what is the max/min you feel are usable? I'm wondering if I'm running my heads too slowly - 20-30mm/sec with ABS depending on quality.


With the stock head and controller I am running slow to fine at 30mm/s and for inside fill and rough areas 40mm/s or around those numbers. For fine work I do 25 to 30 and for less critical stuff like rough prints to check dimensions and stuff I run .3 layers at 40 to 45mm/s.. Once I get my X5 mini controller and PICO hot end installed I should be able to bump those up to 50 and 60 do to the major reduction in head weight and acceleration gains.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.