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Topic: Alternative to Glue Stick

I bought my Da Vinci 1.0 on eBay for 400 bucks. The claim was a jammed extruder. I figure easy fix since I have built a 3DStuffmaker Evolution form the ground up and played with every extruder out there. Well It arrived and to my surprise fired right up. No errors or anything. Went into the menu and used the filament change unload command. The extruder heated and backed the remaining filament out with no issue. Loaded new filament and fed with no issue. Then tried printing and no issue in the extruder. The unit works great so I think I got a pretty good deal.

Now to my topic. Mine did not come with a glue stick. Now for the longest time I have used PLA on bare heated glass and it works like a charm. Once glass cools part lifts right off. This is my first time back to ABS. So how do you make it stick without the glue. hairspray, or ABS slurry? Easy, Kapton tape. You can by the stuff off ebay in any size up to 2 inches wide for about 5 bucks a roll. One roll will last months since the surface can be reused many times. It also gives you a mirror like finish on one side.

I remembered back when I had my Cupcake it used kapton on heated glass as ABS was the only thing out then and it worked great then.

So for all you messing with messy stuff just ditch it all and get a few rolls of kapton tape. You will wonder why you did not do it sooner.

Then if you want to move to PLA, simply remove the tape and print on the bare clean glass. PLA sticks to hot glass like glue but once the glass cools the part will fall off.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

carl_m1968 wrote:

I bought my Da Vinci 1.0 on eBay for 400 bucks. The claim was a jammed extruder. I figure easy fix since I have built a 3DStuffmaker Evolution form the ground up and played with every extruder out there. Well It arrived and to my surprise fired right up. No errors or anything. Went into the menu and used the filament change unload command. The extruder heated and backed the remaining filament out with no issue. Loaded new filament and fed with no issue. Then tried printing and no issue in the extruder. The unit works great so I think I got a pretty good deal.

Now to my topic. Mine did not come with a glue stick. Now for the longest time I have used PLA on bare heated glass and it works like a charm. Once glass cools part lifts right off. This is my first time back to ABS. So how do you make it stick without the glue. hairspray, or ABS slurry? Easy, Kapton tape. You can by the stuff off ebay in any size up to 2 inches wide for about 5 bucks a roll. One roll will last months since the surface can be reused many times. It also gives you a mirror like finish on one side.

I remembered back when I had my Cupcake it used kapton on heated glass as ABS was the only thing out then and it worked great then.

So for all you messing with messy stuff just ditch it all and get a few rolls of kapton tape. You will wonder why you did not do it sooner.

Then if you want to move to PLA, simply remove the tape and print on the bare clean glass. PLA sticks to hot glass like glue but once the glass cools the part will fall off.

Thanks for the tips! I will probably order some soon.

-Andrew

Da Vinci 1.0 + Simplify3D for Mac

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Hi I have been trying or experimenting lately to use just very clean glass, high temp for bed  at 115 , and 230 for Ext ruder and very close to glass, paper thickness a real thin first layer with brim.   it working but only been testing day or so .  I was tired of removing glue all the time and not interested in tape. I am hoping it the answer.

I am using Repetier not  the crappy xyzware or mod and abs. 

Great forum learning lots smile

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

i use blue painters tape.

Da Vinci 1.0 stock firmware and stock xyzware.
3D printer Noob.
Stock ABS filaments

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

techjunkie wrote:

Hi I have been trying or experimenting lately to use just very clean glass, high temp for bed  at 115 , and 230 for Ext ruder and very close to glass, paper thickness a real thin first layer with brim.   it working but only been testing day or so .  I was tired of removing glue all the time and not interested in tape. I am hoping it the answer.

I am using Repetier not  the crappy xyzware or mod and abs. 

Great forum learning lots smile

I too have been trying to get bare glass prints. I have found that increasing the first layer height with bed temps at 95 first layer and 90 after; extruder 220 for first layer and 215 after with a first layer height and width of 150% were giving me pretty good results (xyz filament, Simplify3d and stock firmware j). Yesterday I flashed to repetier and getting not so good results with these temps/numbers. Still testing though.

Quick question, with your bend and extruder temps, is this with xyz filament or 3rd part?

6 (edited by techjunkie 2015-01-12 17:00:15)

Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Very interesting, I have to check those settings out on my tests.

The xyz  abs white for now is all I have, only into 3rd week since owning Davinci 1,  I am learning lots.
I ordered a 3rd party filament off amazon,  I have not tested any PLA, nylon yet or the others, I do plan on if its possible,
to use it.

My glass testing is only in the early stages, so far there are few issues like sticking to glass like superglue , the solution so far is if you get it off the glass asap like a  few seconds after the print finished, when bed temp is 100+ it comes off easy then all I need scrape of the  support or brims and cut out the inside supports, if you miss that temp you have put the bed temp back up to 100+ to remove it, again no big issues.  so far no messy glue or tape, only thing I am little concerned  about is the higher bed temps would shorten my bed life, that's prob not issue.

I am liking this printer with the Repetier, slic3r,  the flexibility of the printing and settings is impressive, I have had 1st layer print tests so thin that it looked like a coffee stain pattern less than .1 mm, very impressive. for $500. 

Firmware I am using Repetier-host v1.06/0.91alpha now with 3rparty cutters like slic3r, still want to test KISS and Cura out , and my 3d cad modeling software is lightwave with cad plugin, soildworks or autocad2015. 

I gave up on the crappy drm infested xyzware and well openmod was crashing too much to waste any more time on it.
I  have had few crashes with Repetier host software, looks like it has memory leak eating up all my video memory with draw calls, and  firmware  lockups ont he printer but not allot, its still be developed so I expected that, very happy so far.
wont be using the locked down xyz crap ware again.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I tried to use Kapton tape and love the finish look it gives on the bottom. I can never get the part off without messing up the Kapton tape.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I use a glue stick you can buy at any office supply place on my 1.0

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

For those that do choose to use the glue stick, alcohol is very good at getting the glue off easily.  I bought a $2 box of individually packaged medical alcohol wipes... very handy.

I also have tried just using bare glass.  I get good results, except that the bed is warped enough that I ultimately can't use it because setting it up for good results in one are leaves other areas at the wrong distance.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I use blue tape for abs. And blue tape with glue stick for large planar surfaces (also brims help). For pla I use blue tape with airspray for planar surfaces or just 50-60C with glue stick for less stressfull surfaces.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Hey guys
I've had my Da Vinci about 5 months now, using the XYZ and 3rd party abs filaments.

Originally I was using the Uhu glue stick and bought a 12 pack off amazon pretty cheap.  The glue stick works pretty well, I've had some issues of prints warping/dislodging if I didn't clean the bed or if too much old glue had piled up.  I usually cleaned it with isopropyl alcohol, some paper towel and a razor to scrape.

Last night I tried some acetone "glue"; a splash of acetone in a mason jar with abs trimmings to melt down and paint on the bed with an acid brush.  Once the acetone evaporates (which helps clean the bed) it leaves a very thin layer of abs for the print to easily stick to. The result was very nice.  I tried it with my problematic filament that usually lifts and dislodges and had no issues, resulting in a pretty clean print.

Glue stick was nice and I still have half a box of sticks left, but it can be difficult to work with, whether it be trying to break the print loose from the bed or washing off the remnants of glue from the bottom.
The acetone glue seemed to dislodge easy enough when I got a blade under it and there shouldn't be a need to clean the bed as often.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Neotko wrote:

I use blue tape for abs. And blue tape with glue stick for large planar surfaces (also brims help). For pla I use blue tape with airspray for planar surfaces or just 50-60C with glue stick for less stressfull surfaces.


For PLA you should just be able to use hot dry and bare glass. If your bed is calibrated properly. This was one of the reasons PLA was adapted to printers in order to remove the need for glue, tape, and so on.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I'm currently printing exclusively ABS. I use Emer's purple glue sticks with decent success. Bought a few sheets of Kapton tape but haven't tried them yet. However, I'm looking to try some more ambitious prints and wondering if the Kapton has better adhesion.

Couple questions:

- how easy is it to remove the Kapton tape when I do want to run PLA?
- what about other filaments (mainly HIPS, but also Ninjaflex, Nylon, etc)
- is this a better choice for adhesion-problematic prints (e.g.: tall prints with a small base)

Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Well true for pla. I forgot to mention that latelly I mostly use wood pla and some brands are quite hard to avoid warp

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Elmers glue sticks the white, not purple work better and clean up with water. The issue with tape is that the ABS sticks very well to it. But the tape has limits on how well it sticks to the glass. So what usually happened in my case was the print would curl and pull the tape up with it.

This was the case for Kapton and blue tape. Once I went to the Elmers whit glue sticks and a bed temp of 110 I have not had any more lifting or delaminations.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Did you see a difference between the white and purple? I tried both and they seemed the same, purple also wipes off with a wet towel and is a little easier to see where I've laid down. I generally run the bed at 100 - do we know what max recommended temps are for bed? Or for extruders for that matter - I worry about running at 250C regularly.

Davinci Duo, Repetier 0.92, OctoPi

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Well at least you got the white elmers to work. It didnt for me. I swapped it for the purple and have warp free prints even on longer print jobs. I printed that zombie hunter head from thingiverse and it took 9.5 hrs with zero warping and perfect adhesion on the first layer with 80c bed temps and 230c nozzle temp. I also only clean the build plate every 8-10 prints but i scrap off any raised glue and re apply new glue on top and it cleans off with water . Then i use rubbing alchohol.

Also for pla i printed on bare glass at 50c with zero issues.

XYZ DA Vinci DUO 2.0
XYZWARE
Simplify3d
wctek.com xyzerocart

18 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-01-13 01:34:53)

Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

montressor wrote:

Did you see a difference between the white and purple? I tried both and they seemed the same, purple also wipes off with a wet towel and is a little easier to see where I've laid down. I generally run the bed at 100 - do we know what max recommended temps are for bed? Or for extruders for that matter - I worry about running at 250C regularly.


The extruder has a Teflon or PEET insert and should not be run nor have to run at over 240 for even the crappiest filament. I run at 210 to 225 max for all the filaments I have tried so far. As for the bed I run at and have always run at 110 for ABS and 80 for PLA. That includes all my previous printers as well. Those are somewhat standard temps for the industry. I however would not go over 150 as you will find the screws and nuts get hot enough to damage the insets they are in and cause the nuts under the bed to free spin and make adjusting impossible.

Mine got up to 180 once because Repetier Host locked up with the heater on. Since it was locked up it was not controlling the heat as it should so the bed as well as the extruder where on runaway. The only thing that alerted me was the smell of ABS that is too hot. Once I power cycled the printer, the extruder was at 310 and the bed at 180. Not sure why the firmware safety did not kick in unless maybe it was the firmware that locked up instead of the Host. Anyways that high temp caused the nuts to melt the inside edges of the recesses the nuts sit in so they would free soin when trying to adjust the bed.

Because of this little mishap is why am moving to a more proven board and firmware as well as the PICO hot end that is safe as and can take as high as 500C.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I was getting quite a bit of warping with uhu so I got some generic and still had issues. Lately I've covered the top hand hole and the front door hole while printing and it has helped greatly. I also don't clean the glue off after every print, just add more to cover the previous print spot.  I've noticed the print bed is cooler closer to the front, probably from the draft caused by convection currents when the top hand hole is open.

20 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-01-13 18:59:15)

Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

rv.mike wrote:

I was getting quite a bit of warping with uhu so I got some generic and still had issues. Lately I've covered the top hand hole and the front door hole while printing and it has helped greatly. I also don't clean the glue off after every print, just add more to cover the previous print spot.  I've noticed the print bed is cooler closer to the front, probably from the draft caused by convection currents when the top hand hole is open.


What is your bed temp? I print at 110 and as said previously use only Elmers Glue Sticks and have had no issues with lifting, curling, or separations. I also do not cover the unit or anything else. All I did is used the inserts for the hand holes and that was it.

I have found not cleaning the bed between each print had adverse affects as well. The glue does not bond as well with older layers of glue as it does with clean glass.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I'm still running stock firmware so I can't change my temps, but the bed is only at 90C and extruder  is at 212C.  That may be why I'm getting better prints when I reduce my heat loss.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I just got my 1.0a two days ago (not my first 3D printer)....this the New Egg Deal (7 carts + 1.0a printer for $469.00 shipped).

First two prints were with very light uhu stick. Cleaned glass and next 3 prints were on bare glass...worked fine. I am printing straight to glass, no rafts, and using standard XYZ ABS carts.

I get THICK Kapton from McMaster-Carr. I use this on my R2X's and they last months. Plus at .005" thick, it gives you a little 'give'.
(this ----> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2271k73/=vgrlg5 )

I haven't printed many prints but I am quite impressed with this 'cheap' printer....

Jay




rv.mike wrote:

I'm still running stock firmware so I can't change my temps, but the bed is only at 90C and extruder  is at 212C.  That may be why I'm getting better prints when I reduce my heat loss.

Jay
I've owned...
R1, 3DS Cube V1, R2, R2X, Orion, Go Large, Go Medium, Simple, Creatbot, Boots Industries, Davinci 1.0, and, inbound, Craftbot

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

undrpsi wrote:

...next 3 prints were on bare glass...worked fine. I am printing straight to glass, no rafts, ...

I get THICK Kapton from McMaster-Carr. I use this on my R2X's and they last months. Plus at .005" thick, it gives you a little 'give'.
(this ----> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2271k73/=vgrlg5 )

Just to make sure I'm understanding, are you printing to bare glass, or to Kapton tape?

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

Just an update.
Ive completed a number additional prints using the ABS acetone glue.  So far it is much easier and more successful than using the glue stick, no need to layer glue or wash remnants from the print.  I have not had any prints lifting from the bed so Im happy.

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Re: Alternative to Glue Stick

I run stock firmware 1.2.3 and XYZ 1.1.33.3. I am not happy about the 40ish pop up boxes when i got home today about the update, i had to close all 40 manually  and the subsequent box that pops up every 10 mins with the app open in the background.Where is the option to turn off the auto updates, i want to get my be leveling down 1st???

I started with stock glue stick UHU and had good prints with very little to no warping. Then I started to get afraid of the glass chipping off while pulling up some of the prints where it seem fused to the plate(bed leveling issue probably.)The other issue was the clean up, I hated it. I moved on to the 3m painters tape medium adhesion, had great prints but after say 3 or so, a piece of tape needed replacement.Then sometimes I would have a heck of a time getting the damaged strip of tape off, it would mess up the bed leveling during the pull off. I moved on to use the 3m painters tape with low-medium adhesion and it peels off so much easier. But, I started to realize it gets air bubbles some times after a few prints and all you have to do is pull it up and smooth it back out. The more i use the printer the more I think 99% of the issues of bad prints I get are simply due to leveling  the bed correctly.

So far this is the rank of bed leveling techniques and method of getting the abs to stick for this noob.

Sticky
1. Glue UHU(I just bought the Elmers purple glue tonight, after another level i am going give it a test)
2. 3m painters tape Edge lock: low-medium adhesion
3. 3m painters tape Multi-Surface: medium adhesion
4. Bare Glass

Bed leveling(I think this is the far most important aspect of printing good quality)
1. Piece of paper
2. XYZ calibration
3. By eye during a single layer test print, adjust the level while its laying abs(Started experimenting with this)