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Topic: Temperature regulation

I'm having trouble keeping a stable temperature. As soon as I switch on the motor/fan, it drops by 20C within seconds, and struggles to recover. In the meantime, the motor is binding up while trying to extrude rapidly cooling plastic (I can hear it struggle every 20 seconds or so and can see the pipe lurch upwards a tiny amount). The extrusion rate is very slow - no more than a cm per minute.

I thought that I might have a clog, so I've removed the brass nozzle and it looks exactly as I would expect - the chamber is 100% of plastic from wall to wall. So I don't think it's a clog. Note: It did extrude at a more reasonable rate when I first turned it on after initial assembly. After only a few hours of running though, I turned it off and am now trying to run it some more to finish clearing out debris - and it's during this second session of use that the problems started. Yes, I did let it warm up to 180+ (actually, 190) and bake there for a while before turning on motors.

As far as the extrusion rate goes, I'm guessing it could be due to a few things. The poor temperature regulation could be preventing smooth extrusion. The pin on the D-shaft might be slipping. There might really be a plug even though it doesn't seem like it. I could also have an improper assembly of the bearing section (this was particularly difficult to get right since there are differences between the filastruder instructions and the lasercut enclosure assembly instructions). I intend to take a look back there and maybe get some photos of the driveshaft to confirm that it has been assembled properly.

But regardless, I'm pretty sure that my insulation is largely to blame. The instructions mention bringing the insulation wrap all the way to the nozzle, but doesn't show a photo of how it should look after installation - and so when I installed mine it sits flush with the iron collar, but not with the face of the nozzle. So I think the fan is over-cooling the brass nozzle. I also noticed that the insulation wrap isn't really a good fit since I have the large "black" collar and had to open up the heater band quite a bit to accommodate - the insulation wrap just doesn't really fit well around it all.

I've seen it mentioned that it is best to insulate from nozzle all the way back to hopper, and I've seen some photos of machines that are clearly using some type of insulation that is completely different from the short length of glass pipe wrap. Is there something specific I could look for at my local Lowes/Home Depot? Preferably something other than messy/itchy glass fibre.

I'd like to get the insulation worked out as best as I can now so I can eliminate it from future troubleshooting.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Need lots of pics of your current setup...

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Re: Temperature regulation

If you're dropping 20C, that tells me you fan is blowing directly on the nozzle, which is confirmed by you later on as well. Fix that by sliding the insulation forward so it sits even with the face of the nozzle, just like the instructions say.

If the pin is slipping, you'll hear it. It sounds like it's slipping, from the "struggle and lurch" comment.

Pictures would help, like insta said.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Sorry for the delay in posting these photos. It's been a very busy week for me and not much free time.

  • I tried to get shots of what I think is relevant based on various threads I've read here.

  • Yes, the insulation isn't flush with the nozzle tip.

  • You can see how the insulation doesn't quite wrap the heater band fully.

  • I saw some mentions of making sure the auger sticks out a certain amount - and I think that is referring to what I measured with the ruler?

  • Some of the assembly was guesswork because the pictures and assembly instructions don't cover everything and I had to guess what the names of parts were.

  • I couldn't remove that coupling off from the motor's D shaft. I'm guessing that means it partially rotated and wedged the pin in there pretty good. No idea if that's a good or bad thing.

  • The orange plastic block is just a printed part that keeps the hopper from rotating due to it's own weight (it fits snugly on the pipe, but seems less snug right at the cutout.

  • I marked the location of the cutout in the pipe with a sharpie so I could verify that the pipe wasn't rotating out of position when the auger turns (since the hopper prevents you from seeing if it has rotated).

I've also noticed that my power supply brick gets *really* hot during use. Is this normal?


http://i.imgur.com/wzbkHHw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mieuTe0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/btTdX5V.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2dcvB8M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NG5H9Ny.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Vm9MeWS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JY2pf7q.jpg

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Re: Temperature regulation

Just slide the insulation forward - I don't know what the problem there is?

It is definitely assembled incorrectly. The white spacers go between the flanges, not behind the back one. The lasercut spacers can go on the back of the back flange if needed.

The 1/4" sticking out refers to how much of the auger sticks out of the barrel (so the other end from where you measured).

I'm still 95% sure the hex socket is slipping based on the other things you described. Just because you can't get the hex socket off doesn't mean it isn't slipping. Leave the hopper mostly empty so you can watch the rotation of the auger. Mark it will a sharpie, you should see 3-4 RPM.

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Re: Temperature regulation

There's no problem with moving it forward - I just simply haven't had time since the weekend to mess with it (only had time for pictures so far).

I'll check for slippage of the socket as soon as I get a chance to.

And I'll change the nylon / lasercut spacers as you suggest before I run it again... and I guess I should also be able to measure the auger as it exits the barrel since I'll have those bolts pulled anyways. If I understand correctly - by "sticking out of the barrel" I believe you mean where that collar is attached (can't be seen in my photos because it is hidden by the double walls of MDF behind the forward flange).

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Re: Temperature regulation

No, I mean sticking out of the barrel:

http://i.imgur.com/Xw2m9P6.jpg

It should be sticking out 1/4" with the thrust bearing compressed.

Don't worry about the spacers on the picture, you have an older revision than pictured.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Oh, now I understand.

I'll need to remove the heater collar and iron fitting that attaches the nozzle to the barrel then.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Finally back from holiday vacation and getting around to messing with this again...

I took the insulation off of the collar to reposition it properly. I'm guessing that the heating band is improperly installed, and should NOT be flush with the rear edge of the iron fitting like this? It should probably be towards the forward part of the iron fitting, perhaps flush with the front edge of it, yes?

http://i.imgur.com/5Fa5TOo.jpg


Also, i rebuilt the flange assembly but this doesn't seem right. With ONLY the nylon spacers between the flanges, the compression bearing is extremely loose. You can see in these next two photos that there is probably a half centimeter of play. I'm not sure what's wrong here, but it definitely doesn't look right?

http://i.imgur.com/HGEb3Km.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jNPTwtv.jpg

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Re: Temperature regulation

Heater band should be in the middle of the iron fitting.

The auger should slide backwards to compress the bearing. Once slid backwards, it will stay that way from the plastic in the barrel. You've assembled it fine, you just haven't slid the auger backwards to compress the thrust bearing.

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Re: Temperature regulation

I see, thanks. Didn't want to try running it without asking about that first.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Yep, the socket is definitely slipping. I brought the heater up to temperature and let it sit for a few minutes to be sure all of the plastic was melted (started oozing out of the nozzle), so that I wouldn't damage anything by turning a cold auger. This video shows that the motor shaft is turning without budging the auger:

Even though it was clearly slipping, I had a heck of a time getting the socket off of the D shaft. But eventually it came off and as you can see, the key is very deformed:

http://i.imgur.com/RvSOU7k.jpg

What should my next step be? Do I need to try a different motor shaft?

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Re: Temperature regulation

Its up to you, really. The mechanical fuse (washer) was a great idea in theory. It worked well on my workbench, but didn't work so well when the various washer thicknesses came into play.

If you contact me through the contact form on the Filastruder website, I can send you a square shaft/gear assembly. You pull the back off the gear motor and swap it out. The only other option is to try a thicker washer.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Thanks, I sent a message through the contact form.

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Re: Temperature regulation

The new shaft (along with the other assembly corrections) is working great. I'm getting almost exactly 450 mm/minute extrusion and tolerances of +- 0.04 mm (not including where it kinks due to not falling towards the floor properly).

I'm running through a day of extrusion to clear out contaminants before I try making any filament for actual printer use, but so far so good!

It's pretty clear though that I need to use a winder. I can't let this sit for more than 10 minutes before the coil twists badly on the floor and causes either a kink, a thick/thin section, or an outright knot of filament at the nozzle exit.

Also, is it normal for the power supply to run very hot? Almost too hot to touch with bare hands - about like bare metal left out in the July sun.

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Re: Temperature regulation

That's more like it!

If the nozzle is ~48" off the floor and there's nothing in the way on the way down (table legs, etc) you shouldn't need a winder. I don't use on, and Iv'e extruded a few hundred kg. You also might try moving your filament guide a bit closer to the nozzle.

Yes, the power supply gets quite toasty. It isn't super efficient, but is within ratings. It is rated for 150% of the Filastruder's current draw, so it isn't being overloaded.

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Re: Temperature regulation

I assume that if I mount the extruder vertically that the filament guide will be irrelevant then (the fan still would matter, of course)?

I'm planning to donate/loan the operational machine to my local makerspace, and would likely end up mounting it vertically on a wall or post.


For now, it's just been running horizontally on the edge of my workbench - only about 30" from the floor. Perhaps operating at the height you suggest (and vertically so the extrusion doesn't kink as much while soft) will be good enough that a winder won't be needed. Probably best to just try it and see.

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Re: Temperature regulation

Vertically it can't really kink at all. I'd tr just moving it 18" higher first though, and moving the filament guide towards the nozzle an inch or so.

If you run vertically you don't need the guide, that's correct.

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Re: Temperature regulation

The filament tends to coil in a circle with the nozzle at the center, so mounting vertically on the wall may not work so well without a winder since the filament will bump into the wall.  You could make a large L bracket of sorts and hang it over the edge of a table, so long as there is enough clear space both under and in front of the table.  Something like I did in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbsIDJN … PI7LRzs-jA