1 Topic by bobnojio (edited by bobnojio 2014-11-20 17:31:22)

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Topic: Declining speeds/output

Over the past month or so, I have been noticing that my extrusion speed has Plummeted severaly, and I am hoping for suggestions as to why / how to fix.

Notes:
have been using the Same Bag (big-ass bag) of pellets before and after the slowdown

Have tried to alter the color mix, and/or go back to uncolored in case colorant was the issue (very slow process... )

Current extrusion rate is ~ 1.5 to 2 inches per minute.   Im told that a STOCK filastruder with the standard motor should be seeing ~6 IPM?

Ambient temperature has not changed, due to nice temperature controls

I have tried up to +195c to extrude, as opposed to the 179 i was getting good results with before


Thought the issue was a clog on my melt-filter nozzle, so I heated, took off the MF nozzle, and put back on the Cleaned (acetone and a drill bit) original nozzle.  no improvement in extrusion rate

Motor (as viewed from the hopper/breach) still appears to be going at about the same rate for auger turning... about 2.5-3RPM i would estimate

When i had the nozzle off, (while stilll heated), I got into the melt-zone with some needle nosed pliers and Pulled out a fair amount of melted plastic -- all in the color i was trying to extrude.  no leftovers / chunks / foreign bodies easily apparent (i doubt a barrel clog?)



So that leads me to, from front to back:
Nozzle - swapped out, no improvement
Melt-zone:  Dug out a bunch in case of a blockage/clog - no improvement but maybe I missed something Deeper
Barrel: unknown... is it possible that something Melted further in, Adhered to the auger, and is serving as a blockage?
Auger - still turning
Hopper - still feeding (slowly...)
Motor - still turns the auger.  no strange noises or anything.  new enough that it does not need a washer to log to the auger (so no slippage)
Material - its been happening on several colors / intensities...  its going to take me a couple days of running to flush the current color OUT at this speed, but i am going to try to keep testing with JUST mg-94 pellets, to rule out color causing issues with the output.

Im using one of the laser-cut enclosures from here.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

2 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Declining speeds/output

What colorants were you running?

Is the cutout in the barrel still facing completely upwards?

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3 Reply by bobnojio (edited by bobnojio 2014-11-20 17:39:10)

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Re: Declining speeds/output

elmoret wrote:

What colorants were you running?

Is the cutout in the barrel still facing completely upwards?

I have tried using some very-lightly mixed red (pink?) from OSPrinting  back when they were closing down --- extruded beautifully a month or so ago, but now not-so-good
and also some medium-mixed (bag said 1:36 to 1:90, so i went about 1:60) Green from Mandy over at 3dsupplysource.  (i have also tried to thin this down more just in case)

Both are labelled as ABS colorants.

4 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Declining speeds/output

I have found that some colorants can cause this to happen, even if labeled as ABS-compatible. So far only glow in the dark colorants have been associated with this. Roughly 6 customers have reported this issue (out of 1700), I've been tracking them here:

http://www.soliforum.com/post/65178/#p65178

It is hard to narrow down the cause with so few folks experiencing the problem, and I've only experienced it once myself.

The other 6 customers saw extrusion drop even lower than you - less than 1"/min. If the barrel cutout is still facing up (and you are running horizontal, as vertical hoppers sometimes have feeding problems) then you may want to disassemble and soak the barrel in acetone to clean it. If that doesn't work, I can send out a replacement barrel/auger.

I would also check that the shaft collar has not slipped, the auger being out of the melt zone would cause this as well.

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5 Reply by bobnojio

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Re: Declining speeds/output

sorry, i glossed over that question:

I have indeed verified that the barrel cut is relatively upright.  its a few degrees off of center, but I have tilted the hopper slightly to compensate (total movement at the tip of the hopper:  less than 1/2 of an inch).

It was a %*($% to put the enclosure together, so i would really rather not take it all apart...   

Would you think that running it to Natural, and then maybe Burning through a couple hoppers worth of material to Flush the colorant would help on its own?  or should I really be Gutting and Soaking?

6 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Declining speeds/output

You can give this stuff a try, and see if it cleans everything out-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASACLEAN-PURGIN … 4d207f158a

I'm fairly sure this is what the nozzle cleaning filament is made of. 

When I had this problem, only replacing the barrel seemed to work.  Maybe there is something that changes in the surface of the barrel that reduces the friction.  If you get a new barrel, it might be worth cutting the old one open lengthwise and see if anything seems different from a new barrel.

7 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Declining speeds/output

I know this isn't the answer you want, but its really hard to say what the course of action should be because I have so little experience with it, and can't seem to replicate the problem.

You can try running virgin material first, no harm in that. What diameter are you seeing?

How much material have you extruded so far? All ABS?

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8 Reply by bobnojio

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Re: Declining speeds/output

IanJohnson wrote:

You can give this stuff a try, and see if it cleans everything out-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASACLEAN-PURGIN … 4d207f158a

I'm fairly sure this is what the nozzle cleaning filament is made of. 

When I had this problem, only replacing the barrel seemed to work.  Maybe there is something that changes in the surface of the barrel that reduces the friction.  If you get a new barrel, it might be worth cutting the old one open lengthwise and see if anything seems different from a new barrel.

so basically, heat up, remove nozzle, and then spin through some of this Purging stuff?

Im likely not going to do that, just curious

9 Reply by bobnojio (edited by bobnojio 2014-11-20 18:29:28)

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Re: Declining speeds/output

elmoret wrote:

I know this isn't the answer you want, but its really hard to say what the course of action should be because I have so little experience with it, and can't seem to replicate the problem.

You can try running virgin material first, no harm in that. What diameter are you seeing?

How much material have you extruded so far? All ABS?

hey, "im not sure" is a prefectly valid answer!

im going to give it a try with virgin material, i guess i cant really call it a Purge, but i will Flush it through with uncolored pellets, and see what happens.


Ive probably put through about 1-1.5 Gallons of pellets so far? (i store it in a 5gallon pail with Desiccant...)   Im still getting a pretty consistent 1.67-1.68mm filament coming out, just slowly.


Might it be possible that ive Polished the inside of my barrel enough through usage that im not getting enough Friction?

10 Reply by bobnojio

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Re: Declining speeds/output

have not noticed a decline in diameter during this slowing.

11 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Declining speeds/output

bobnojio wrote:

Might it be possible that ive Polished the inside of my barrel enough through usage that im not getting enough Friction?

I won't rule anything out, but I have run 250lbs (roughly 50 gallons) of ABS before experiencing my first and only stoppage of output, and then ran another 50 pounds since then with only a cleanout performed, same parts - so I doubt you've polished anything, though some other factor may have changed the surface quality.

One other thing to try is fully insulating the entire barrel, if you haven't already. That should improve output on both normal and reduced output conditions.

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12 Reply by bobnojio

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Re: Declining speeds/output

Muffler-Wrap OK for that?   ive got some around here somewhere.

13 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Declining speeds/output

Sure, that's fine.

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14 Reply by Weekend Avenger

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Re: Declining speeds/output

I realize this is slightly off topic, but if it's simply a matter of "too smooth" on the inner surface of the barrel wouldn't it be possible to acid etch it back to a less polished condition?

Might be far too much work in light of what you'd charge for a barrel replacement, but thought it was worthy of asking.

15 Reply by Ggalisky

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Re: Declining speeds/output

I had problems initially with slow extrusion. One fool proof way to get everything working again is to completely dissemble and clean the following parts with acetone: The barrel, auger, coupler between the nozzle and barrel, and the nozzle. One thing you do have to watch out for if you do this, is making sure to keep the threads clean on the nozzle, barrel, and the coupler between the nozzle and the barrel. reassemble and purge some filament until it looks clean. I do this every time I run into a wall experimenting with a new material.

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16 Reply by bobnojio

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Re: Declining speeds/output

I think I have this finally solved ---  Currently clocking in at around 8.5-9 inches/minute output!

It seems that my issue may indeed have been the Green Colorant. (which is odd, because i went green to red, back to green ALL slow extrusion...)

I spent 5 days @ ~5 hours a day Extruding at the incredible slow rate with nothing but Virgin MG-94 (no colorant).  it was VERY slow for quite some time... but after about 100m of natural/white, it finally seems to have Kicked 'er into overdrive, and is back at the fast speed.

So all told, things I did that affected this:
Took off nozzle and replaced (reminds me... i need to clean and re-attach my melt-filter nozzle...)
Dug some goop out of the barrel - hot end with needlenose pliers while nozzle was off
Ran thrugh enough bull%*($% to Finally cleanse it

Its going GREAT now big_smile