1 Topic by a3393341 (edited by a3393341 2014-10-03 08:02:38)

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Topic: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

All the videos I've seen on both wikis seem to be for SD3. I have a SD4.While some of the calibration videos I've been able to do as the parts in SD4 are identical or very similar to the SD3, the calibration videos for the rest I find difficult because the parts have changed.

So far I've calibrated:

1) The Z offset ( http://wiki.solidoodle.com/first-layers … e-z-offset )
2) Leveling the print bed ( http://wiki.solidoodle.com/leveling-the-print-bed )
3) extruder aka extrusion stepper ( http://wiki.solidoodle.com/extruder-calibration )

After these in the list on the wikis is adjusting the "flow rate" http://wiki.solidoodle.com/flow-rate
Do I need to adjust this if I've already adjusted the extrusion stepper? Because in the end of the article it says to change the "Extrusion Muliplier" in Slic3r to set it to what you need, but that is also what changes the extrusion stepper speed which I've already set. Am I missing something? Or am I suggested to do this just to "iron out" my previous calibration of the extrusion stepper?

Next in the official wiki come the "XY calibration" and "Y-Axis Alignment & Belt Tightening"which lead to the same video.
http://wiki.solidoodle.com/belt-adjustment
http://vimeo.com/55031028

These screws and some parts don't exist in Solidoodle 4. How am I supposed to know how to do this calibration?

And finally, the official Solidoodle website's wiki's calibrations list ends here, but Soliwiki has two more calibration pages:

1) Calibration of the Z wobble: http://www.soliwiki.com/Calibration_of_the_Z_wobble
2) PID tuning: http://www.soliwiki.com/PID_tuning

I don't see these mentioned anywhere else. I bought my Solidoodle in July. Are these calibrations still needed for Solidoodle 4 and SD4 models released then?

2 Reply by n2ri (edited by n2ri 2014-10-03 08:29:08)

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

I think the last 2 where for old hardware/firmware updated since b4 SD4, I noticed the belt adjust video kinda gets the cart b4 the horse a couple times and they redo part of it again. so unless that part is an issue I wouldnt mess with it even on SD2/3. the old models belts could twist at connection screw and cause that issue too.

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3 Reply by a3393341

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

I'm getting these artifacts: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/7797/per … ion-issue/
The only thing left to adjust seems to be XY calibration aka belt tightening...

4 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

Extrusion steps per mm sets how much filament is used.  Call for 100 mm's get 100 mm's.
It is not the same as your extrusion multiplier in Slic3r which you'll use to set your single wall thickness to .48

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5 Reply by a3393341 (edited by a3393341 2014-10-03 18:43:53)

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

wardjr wrote:

Extrusion steps per mm sets how much filament is used.  Call for 100 mm's get 100 mm's.
It is not the same as your extrusion multiplier in Slic3r which you'll use to set your single wall thickness to .48

How is it not the "same", as in changing the steps per mm?
Isn't the extrusion multiplier just doing setting_in_eeprom * extrusion_multiplier? And in the end changing the "steps per mm" setting by multiplying the value from EEPROM with itself?
Please tell me what I'm missing.

Also, in the tutorial it says "When you are printing at .3mm layers, a good Width over Thickness Ratio is 1.4". What about 0.2mm? 0.1, 0.4?

6 Reply by Claghorn

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

a3393341 wrote:

Also, in the tutorial it says "When you are printing at .3mm layers, a good Width over Thickness Ratio is 1.4". What about 0.2mm? 0.1, 0.4?

If I understand it (which I'm sure I don't :-), you want to get the steps per mm accurate because it will be the same for all filament, but but some filament might be slightly different diameter than others, so you can tweak the other settings in slic3r to account for that in the filament definition.

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7 Reply by a3393341

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

Im not sure you understood my question

8 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

Extrusion Multiplier is in your slice profile.  Could someone toss up a screenshot please I'm on my smart phone.
Steps per mm is in EEPROM
Two very different things and both need to be correct.  Filament diameter is also a setting in Slic3r and shouldn't affect your steps per mm if you actually measure the filament with a caliper and enter that into the settings the software will make the nessecary changes for you.

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9 Reply by a3393341 (edited by a3393341 2014-10-04 06:05:02)

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

wardjr wrote:

Extrusion Multiplier is in your slice profile.
Steps per mm is in EEPROM

I know. But thats irrelevant to my point,which was, to paraphrase:
Isnt changing the extrusion multiplier just talking the "Steps per mm" number in EEPROM and multiplying it with the "Extrusion Multiplier" number from Slic3r settings and using the resulted number for number of steps per mm? (steps_per_mm * extrusion_multiplier = new_steps_per_mm ). Because if it is, then it is just rewriting the number (which is now set in EEPROM) I measured by doing the 100mm straw test several times.
And if not, again please explain what it does then.

10 Reply by n2ri (edited by n2ri 2014-10-04 07:53:33)

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

no I think the figure in EEPROM/firmware is the formula used by slicer to do the calculations based on slicer settings used. kinda like algebra etc setting the memory number to use when doing formulas like XxY-M=? now I never was good at such math but can use basic math to get the job done ;^P always need a constant or base line when doing formulas

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

11 Reply by a3393341

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

Were either having a language barrier problem or you just said exactly what I said for some reason hmm

12 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

I am no software programmer.  In part you are right but the multiplier changes other variables also.  This is what I can tell you for sure.  The method I described works and it is how most users manage to print successfully.  You can choose not to do it this way if you like but then you'll have to walk that path alone.

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13 Reply by a3393341 (edited by a3393341 2014-10-04 15:38:21)

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

Im not really  a programmer myself. Sorry if I sounded rude. Was just curious and didnt want to mess something up which I had spent hours getting just right.
The multiplier by default is set to .6. Weird.
I've printed a test 1-shell thick cube but not sure how to measure it with a  caliper I just got, squeezing a thin plastic like that just slightly or having it slightly loose changes the numbers...
How do you guys measure? Tight until it doesnt move, or just enough gap that the plastic can go through the gap?

14 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

I didn't think you were rude. I was simply pointing out that your path is uncharted.
You have your steps set correctly then just to get close set your multiplier to .85
Then print the single wall cube 10 mm's tall and use the caliper to measure the wall thickness.  You just want the caliper touching the plastic not squishing it. 
.6 is rather low.

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15 Reply by a3393341

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

wardjr wrote:

You have your steps set correctly then just to get close set your multiplier to .85

Sorry, why .85? Thanks.

I did the caliper test, and iton one of the walls it shows 0.39 and on others all the way to 0.6. Maybe I just dont know how to use a caliper properly.

16 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

It's going to be difficult to measure until you get closer so that's why .85
The reason your seeing two different measurements doesn't matter until you get closer to .48

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17 Reply by n2ri

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

like ward said it works.
I dont think you can see the multiplier number in firmware though Slicer. the slicer just uses the firmware multiplier figure (the one Ward is telling how to put in) to calculate things for your specific printer so G-code comes out right.
least thats my understanding.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

18 Reply by Hazer

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Re: Solidoodle 4 calibrations? (don't even know if these are all)

OK. Its much simpler than everyone is making it out to be. Yes, all of these numbers are used to come up with a single calculation in the end, so lets discuss the difference (and where these numbers can be used in different areas).

Steps/mm: In the firmware. This is the number used by the firmware after a slicer sends the distance. You calibrate it because you do NOT want this number to be dynamic. It is literally how much filament goes through when you command it. This numner is also used (alone) with retraction settings.

Filament diameter: This is used by the slicer to determine how much filament needs to be pushed through. This number changes with every batch of filament you buy. It is VERY dynamic, and the slicer needs to calculate correctly to extrude just the right amount for the distance and velocity the head is moving for every vector. But what you need to know is that while the measured diameter should work correctly for 'steps/mm' calculations, it does not necessarily work all the time for extrusion amount because you cannot measure how oval the filament is.

Extrusion multiplier: This number is extremely dynamic.  Its the fudge number for getting the wall thickness just right. Diameter is usually set once per roll, but you can change the multiplier many times based upon the previous print.

So, yes, all of these numbers go into the same calculation in the end. But which you will have to change and where is important. You do not want to change the firmware more than once. But you will have to change the multiplier many times everytime you use a different roll. And its easier to save filament 'profiles' in the slicer.

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