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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Solidoodle Discussion → Solidoodle 4 issues (topic renamed)
I think I understand what the problem is Im getting. When I try to print anything with the default settings, I get gaps between the perimeters? and the rest of the print.
I made this very simple "cutout" model as an example.
Here are two prints:
Second one ended up even worse:
I get this issue with everything I print.
settings are all default
Any ideas?
EDIT: here are my EEPROM settings:
That is not a settings or profile issue, rather a calibration issue. Do the circle test and try calibrating extrusion steps per mm
and extrusion multiplier. All of these things are covered in the WIKI.
Also might add a little drop of oil on the rear Y-axis drive rod bushings.
I'll try thanks.
.
Maybe it will also fix the issue of the lines being a bit too far from each other in general.
That should fix it. You definitely have an extrusion issue.
The WIKI is going to reference an Extrusion width of .42 and you have a .40 nozzle so you will want to aim for an extrusion width of .48 Do you have a digital calipers? If not go get one you'll need it.
Okay, so it seems like the extruder is extruding about 123.95 mm of filament when I tell it to extrude 100 mm and the width of the extruded plastic is 0.48 mm ( using a 1.73 mm filament). I tried the guide on the wiki to change the speed of the extrusion but it seems to be for older versions of Solidoodle, not Solidoodle 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZGdMc2ebPo#t=38
I don't have Arduino editor in my PC nor that configuration file he is talking about.
Just change it in EEPROM right in R-H
Okay, so it seems like the extruder is extruding about 123.95 mm of filament when I tell it to extrude 100 mm and the width of the extruded plastic is 0.48 mm ( using a 1.73 mm filament).
Make sure you are printing a single perimeter cube to measure the extruded strand thickness and not just measuring the strand as extruded from the nozzle. The extruded plastic dangling from the nozzle will generally always be .48 (from a .4 nozzle); it's the thickness when it gets squished into building a perimeter that you want.
a3393341 wrote:Okay, so it seems like the extruder is extruding about 123.95 mm of filament when I tell it to extrude 100 mm and the width of the extruded plastic is 0.48 mm ( using a 1.73 mm filament).
Make sure you are printing a single perimeter cube to measure the extruded strand thickness and not just measuring the strand as extruded from the nozzle. The extruded plastic dangling from the nozzle will generally always be .48 (from a .4 nozzle); it's the thickness when it gets squished into building a perimeter that you want.
+1
Thanks.
Seems like fixing the amount of plastic coming in didnt fix it.
Now you will want to focus on alignment of the Y-axis drive belts. Move the gantry by hand to the middle of the platform then loosen the right rear set screw on the Y-axis drive rod pulley. Then move the gantry back and forth stopping in the middle again with that right side resting in a nice neutral position and tighten the set screw. This is best done with both hands so you can feel for any binding. Past that you might try loosening the drive belt to the motor for the y-axis some as that can deflect the drive rod and cause what your seeing. The down side to this is increased backlash.
Now you will want to focus on alignment of the Y-axis drive belts. Move the gantry by hand to the middle of the platform then loosen the right rear set screw on the Y-axis drive rod pulley.
Sorry, I dont understand this, "right rear set screw on the Y-axis drive rod pulley".
The down side to this is increased backlash.
what backlash?
In the back of the printer is a rod that runs horizontally. It turns as the Y-axis moves and is driven by a motor. That motor is connected to the rod with a continuous belt and pulley's. Then there are two belts that run from the back of the printer all the way to the front. There's one of these on both sides. They go around the rod in the back of the printer on pulley's.
Each of these pulleys has a set screw to keep it from turning on the rod. In order to align both belts one each side you need to loosen a set screw so it can rotate on the rod slightly.
Backlash would be the same as extra play in a particular axis. If you loosen the drive motor belt it would slop around a bit more.
thank you
In the back of the printer is a rod that runs horizontally. It turns as the Y-axis moves and is driven by a motor. That motor is connected to the rod with a continuous belt and pulley's. Then there are two belts that run from the back of the printer all the way to the front. There's one of these on both sides. They go around the rod in the back of the printer on pulley's.
Each of these pulleys has a set screw to keep it from turning on the rod. In order to align both belts one each side you need to loosen a set screw so it can rotate on the rod slightly.
you mean *move* on the rod right?
Okay. Than you. I removed the left and right painted aluminum sheets from the SD4 and it was identical to the SD3. I loosened the 4 screws of the Y motor, moved it up with my hand, took out the y belt from its location to the right, then loosened the tiny set screws on the pulleys (also the y motor pulley) and moved the gantry several times until they realigned. I also made sure the the horizontal rod didnt move left or right and remained in the center. I also realigned the y motor belt by putting it back and doing the same movements. I then tightened the set screws. Exactly as shown in this video: http://vimeo.com/55031028
One problem though. SD4 is still different from SD3. Even though the video is low res and blurry and I might be wrong, the screws he uses to "tighten" the left and right belts are missing.
Instead there are only 4 screws (2 on each side) that seem to move the two gears for the left and right belts located in the front of the printer in SD4. I tried tightening and loosening them until the extruder refused to move in the y axis or it moved very freely. I ended up going medium.
This is what I'm talking about:
I didnt see anything about X belt adjustment in the video or wiki.
After doing all this, and the z height calibration, and extruder calibration, and bed leveling, I still get shit result like this:
What am I still missing which I should configure, or did I do something wrong here?
Backlash would be the same as extra play in a particular axis. If you loosen the drive motor belt it would slop around a bit more.
Im not sure I understand. Will that cause a line to become wavy (like in the last image)?
looks like right side is hitting something making it veer off target maybe? if watched does it make odd sound or jurk at any time when printing?
You're on the right path. As far as the two belts for the y-axis just tighten them the same on both sides. You can hear the pitch like tuning a guitar to get the tension the same.
It would appear that you have an extrusion issue. It could be one of four things.
1. Steps per mm in EEPROM 100 mm called for needs to equal 100 mm's of filament pulled.
2. Extrusion multiplier is off, print a 20 mm single perimeter cube and measure the wall thickness. It needs to be very close to .48 adjust the extrusion multiplier accordingly.
3. Extrusion width in your slice profile is set incorrectly. You can change this for different layers. I like to print the first layer at roughly half so in your case set it to .24-.30
4. You could be dealing with a partial clog, bad filament or the filament may be pulling excessively on the extruder. OK that last one is really three things 
Good luck.
thanks
You're on the right path. As far as the two belts for the y-axis just tighten them the same on both sides. You can hear the pitch like tuning a guitar to get the tension the same.
OK. How tight though?
Steps per mm in EEPROM 100 mm called for needs to equal 100 mm's of filament pulled.
If you mean when I tell it to use 100 mm, does it use 100mm, then yes, for sure, Ive ran the calibration test from the wiki several times.
2. Extrusion multiplier is off, print a 20 mm single perimeter cube and measure the wall thickness. It needs to be very close to .48 adjust the extrusion multiplier accordingly.
I asked you to explain why I need to set this in another thread if my steps per mm is correct already. But Ill go ahead and run this test/ calibration as well.
3. Extrusion width in your slice profile is set incorrectly. You can change this for different layers. I like to print the first layer at roughly half so in your case set it to .24-.30
If I understood what you meant, the first layer height in Slic3r is set to 0.350, the rest to 0.4. The same number is set for other layer height presets.
4. You could be dealing with a partial clog, bad filament or the filament may be pulling excessively on the extruder. OK that last one is really three things
Good luck.
Okay so,
1) Anyway to check if there really is clogging? And how to remove clog? Ive read to remove the extruder head and torch it, but dontknow how exactly to remove it and put it back.
2) Its Solidoodle's filament
3) By "pulling excessively on the extruder" do you mean something not letting the filament get pulled by the extruder freely? Thats not the case.
And if you noticed in the last photo of mine, the 45 degrees lines arent perfectly straight anymore, they are wavy (check first two images in this thread for comparison). Looks like my y-belt calibration did more harm than good...
And btw, extruder head temp was tested at 195 and 215.
Bed temp at 110.
Anything below causes warping or first layer not sticking to the bed for me.
Still need to find a temp meter to measure if the numbers in RH are correct.
Thanks for the help so far.
EDIT: Added a screenshot of my EEPROM settings to the first.
EDIT 2: I just noticed, the x axis belt has become very loose after the y calibration 
I did not mean layer height. I meant extrusion width.
You need to spend some time playing around with Slic3r to see what things can be changed.
I have been working with my sd4 for a few weekends now and have it to a point I'm happy with. It certainly needed some help right out of the box. Being a Controls Eng. and designing and building CNC machines for years make me a little anal when it comes to performance of machines. Right off the bat the Y axis belt system needed some help. If you pull the carriage all the way to the front and look straight down at the vertical alignment of the belts I bet you will see the bottom belt is not aligned with the top belt. Mine was out of alignment towards the outside of the frame by about 3/16 of an inch. The problem was the grooves in the clamping block were not cleaned up properly and wouldn't let the belt slide left and right enough to align properly. I removed the blocks and cleaned the grooves with a small file. I also opened up the hole in the block slightly to allow the screw to pass through. From the factory the screw threaded through the block which is wrong. With the belt out of alignment like these it causes the belt tension to vary depend on where the slide is positioned along the axis travel. I then did the procedure on the pulleys in the back to get the pulleys aligned properly. After that was fixed I tensioned the belts using the belt tension gauge on Thingiverse. On the left side of the extrusion carrier where the bottom belt attaches is a screw used to adjust the X axis belt. All of these adjustments helped make circles much better but I still changed my firmware to add the hysteresis capability to get rid of the last of the little bit.
I have a question though, in your last picture if that is a single layer print it doesn't appear it doesn't appear that your getting any squish of the extrusion. The ribbons look very cylindrical and don't appear squished at all. Trying adjusting the X axis height a little and see if you get better results. I've made quite a few more tweaks to my machine and it now runs very well.
Wardjr I have a question. If I do a single wall cube and I measure the width of the wall shouldn't it measure the thickness listed at the beginning of the G-code?
Technically yes it should, the problem is .42 (is what's listed?) is a byproduct of the older .35 nozzle that SD used to ship with and they have failed to upgrade the default profiles.
The new models ship with a .4 nozzle so you want 120% of the nozzle diameter or in your case .48 you should change the extrusion width's in your profile accordingly. If you run a narrower extrusion width on the first layer it will promote better adhesion. Reduce it on your top layer for a finer finish. Extrusion width is the tool path followed and changing that will also automatically adjust other things like flow. But for things like a single wall you want that to be set at and print at .48
Does that answer your question?
So if I change the extruder diameter to .4 in repetier that doesn't change the calculation done in the slic3r?
Also is 120% a good rule of thumb for any layer thickness?
Any change you make in R-H just pulls from a particular profile in Slic3r or what ever slice software you may choose. When you make a change to a slice profile make sure you save it with a different name. This will ensure you don't loose your default profiles. Then make sure you select that profile in R-H before you slice. The only thing your printer actually responds to is
G-code commands. Those are generated by Slic3r based on the profile you choose.
You'll end up with many profiles for different filaments and a whole other set of profiles for the type of print. For example, I have a filament profile named ABS. Then I have a print profile named "solidfill" and another named "no fill". Depending on what I am printing, I would slice choosing the profiles based on what type of filament and what type of print job I'm doing.
An example would be a 20mm cube if I want a solid cube out of nylon I'd just choose the profile that I created for nylon that has 100% infill. If I wanted to print that same cube with a single wall for calibration in ABS. I'd just choose the profile with no fill and perimeters set to 1 with no top layer. Exact same cube file 2 totally different print results.
Of course I don't want a profile for every scenario just the most frequently used ones.
I will say this... I never do a new print without looking at and usually changing the profile before I slice and print it.
Also is 120% a good rule of thumb for any layer thickness?
If you mean extrusion width then yes 120% is the calculated amount based on expansion of the filament leaving the nozzle. It is not a number I made up.
If you are talking about layer height the two things are unrelated. Choose any layer height you want based on the desired resolution of the print. If making a functional part where appearance doesn't matter use .3 it's faster. Looking to print art use .1 it's slower (more layers) but more detail.
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