1 (edited by machinistjoe 2013-05-23 00:46:13)

Topic: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

In my spare time I have been trying to adapt the infamous AR-15 lower receiver to be printed on the SD2. I know that I can't put it on Thingiverse, but would it be okay to post it here? I'm not only asking for the sake of actual forum permission, but for community permission as well. If it's something the consensus doesn't want, then I will not post it. The idea is to make the receiver in two pieces to fit on the build platform. Since I'm no gunsmith or engineer, I tried my best to determine where to split the receiver, and where to add support. It is a total WIP, and I was never actually planning on using it outside of proof of concept. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!

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2

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

I for one have no problem with it, but I'm not sure what the moderators have to say about it. 

I mean let's face it, you could probably build an airsoft version out of plastic that would survive the stresses, but put a .223 or 5.56 in there and you'll probably hurt yourself.  So I really don't understand all this hubbub about printing functional guns on a 3D printer.

We even had a local politician calling for the banning of 3D printers because they could be used to print GUNS !!!   Seriously !?!

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

3

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

I'd hate to see a US gov over-reaction shut the site down.

That aside, if the consensus is to allow it,  I would suggest it get its own sub-forum or that one be created for controversial or adult topics.  That would allow those of  us who would prefer to ignore such topics to do so without causing any trouble for those that are interested. 

Sooner or later someone is going to show up and want to post their "Adult Toy" stl.  We might consider how to handle that as well.

4

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

you can also send it to defcad.org

5

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

justsomeguy wrote:

I'd hate to see a US gov over-reaction shut the site down.

That aside, if the consensus is to allow it,  I would suggest it get its own sub-forum or that one be created for controversial or adult topics.  That would allow those of  us who would prefer to ignore such topics to do so without causing any trouble for those that are interested. 

Sooner or later someone is going to show up and want to post their "Adult Toy" stl.  We might consider how to handle that as well.

Thats a good point. I would imagine a carte blanche ban on both would probably occur. Although, I think there would be good cause to create a sort of "Thingiverse After Dark" sort of site for all the stuff we don't want our kids seeing/printing."

6

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

DEFCAD cannot host files ATM as they are fighting off ITAR complaints. However if you go on Defcad IRC you can post files and one of the community will put up links to it.

As to the AR receiver, cut of the part that sticks out the most (the ring) and print, then superglue it onto the main part.

SD2 w/ Heated bed. Mods: E3D MK5, Lawsy MKV, Glass Bed, printed filament stand

7

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

being raised very familiar with firearms I too think 3D printed gun parts are unsafe to use with well over 50,000 Lbs PSI forces banging the parts each time fired (anyone ever put a fire craker in a plastic egg?). things like clips maybe as long as not exceeding local laws capacity limits but also anyone manufacturing the parts has to be licensed and insured to sell them at least in most countries that allow sales. so I for one have more safe uses intended for my 3D printer. also not into Porn. there's plenty places to get that stuff already we dont need any defamatory abuse of 3D printers to slow down growth of this industry. and I am pro guns. just dont mix things others find offensive with a new tech that can fix the world economy.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

8

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

If you want a gun that's mostly made from plastic, buy a Glock.

Among other considerations, even a low power, sissy round like the .223 used in AR 15s produces 50,000 pounds of pressure per square inch. It it were safe and practical to make lowers from plastic, you can bet your last buck Armalite would have been making them out of plastic for the past several decades.

It's also worth noting that under Federal law, the lower receiver IS the gun. Unless you have a Federal license to manufacture firearms, you may want to weigh whatever short term joy you'd experience from trying to build a gun on a printer against a long and unpleasant stay in a Federal prison.

And, seriously, you can pick up a stripped lower receiver for under fifty bucks that is made out of materials that will last practically forever. If you can legally own a firearm, why would you want to fool around building one out of breakable plastic parts?

If you will pardon me for being frank rather than diplomatic, while I have a very high opinion of the Second Amendment, I have a very low opinion of stupid. There's a good reason guns are made out of metal. It's because making them out of plastic is stupid.

On top of everything else, the whole printed gun thing is nothing more than brain dead media hype. If you want to manufacture firearms from computer files, trade in your over priced 3D printer for a milling machine. If you want to get into the illegal arms trade, you can cut an AR lower from a block of aluminum a lot better, faster and cheaper with a CAD file and a milling machine than you can with a CAD file and a 3D printer.

About the only practical application for 3D printing and guns is a person might be able to do some interesting things in the way of custom grips and stocks. If you come up with a good design, you might even find a real market for them, and without having to worry about the Feds busting down your door at three in the morning.

9

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Don9mm wrote:

If you want a gun that's mostly made from plastic, buy a Glock.

Among other considerations, even a low power, sissy round like the .223 used in AR 15s produces 50,000 pounds of pressure per square inch. It it were safe and practical to make lowers from plastic, you can bet your last buck Armalite would have been making them out of plastic for the past several decades.

It's also worth noting that under Federal law, the lower receiver IS the gun. Unless you have a Federal license to manufacture firearms, you may want to weigh whatever short term joy you'd experience from trying to build a gun on a printer against a long and unpleasant stay in a Federal prison.

And, seriously, you can pick up a stripped lower receiver for under fifty bucks that is made out of materials that will last practically forever. If you can legally own a firearm, why would you want to fool around building one out of breakable plastic parts?

If you will pardon me for being frank rather than diplomatic, while I have a very high opinion of the Second Amendment, I have a very low opinion of stupid. There's a good reason guns are made out of metal. It's because making them out of plastic is stupid.

On top of everything else, the whole printed gun thing is nothing more than brain dead media hype. If you want to manufacture firearms from computer files, trade in your over priced 3D printer for a milling machine. If you want to get into the illegal arms trade, you can cut an AR lower from a block of aluminum a lot better, faster and cheaper with a CAD file and a milling machine than you can with a CAD file and a 3D printer.

About the only practical application for 3D printing and guns is a person might be able to do some interesting things in the way of custom grips and stocks. If you come up with a good design, you might even find a real market for them, and without having to worry about the Feds busting down your door at three in the morning.

+1 I too have been wondering why nobody is 3D printing custom pistol grips for target pistols like High Standard etc. make a file that you can punch hand measurments in for specific pistol and print.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

10

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Don9mm wrote:

If you will pardon me for being frank rather than diplomatic, while I have a very high opinion of the Second Amendment, I have a very low opinion of stupid. There's a good reason guns are made out of metal. It's because making them out of plastic is stupid.

+1, plus i'm too fond of my fingers and face to want to fire a printed gun.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

11

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

n2ri wrote:

I too have been wondering why nobody is 3D printing custom pistol grips for target pistols like High Standard etc.

I have seen a few for 1911 on thingiverse.
Personally, I never liked the polymer bodies. All metal handguns always had a nicer balance IMO. Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with shared files for grips, mounts, etc. I love my guns and I love me some printing, but I can easily see how sites like DefCAD can be abused.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

12

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Don9mm wrote:

If you want a gun that's mostly made from plastic, buy a Glock.

Among other considerations, even a low power, sissy round like the .223 used in AR 15s produces 50,000 pounds of pressure per square inch. It it were safe and practical to make lowers from plastic, you can bet your last buck Armalite would have been making them out of plastic for the past several decades.

It's also worth noting that under Federal law, the lower receiver IS the gun. Unless you have a Federal license to manufacture firearms, you may want to weigh whatever short term joy you'd experience from trying to build a gun on a printer against a long and unpleasant stay in a Federal prison.

And, seriously, you can pick up a stripped lower receiver for under fifty bucks that is made out of materials that will last practically forever. If you can legally own a firearm, why would you want to fool around building one out of breakable plastic parts?

If you will pardon me for being frank rather than diplomatic, while I have a very high opinion of the Second Amendment, I have a very low opinion of stupid. There's a good reason guns are made out of metal. It's because making them out of plastic is stupid.

On top of everything else, the whole printed gun thing is nothing more than brain dead media hype. If you want to manufacture firearms from computer files, trade in your over priced 3D printer for a milling machine. If you want to get into the illegal arms trade, you can cut an AR lower from a block of aluminum a lot better, faster and cheaper with a CAD file and a milling machine than you can with a CAD file and a 3D printer.

About the only practical application for 3D printing and guns is a person might be able to do some interesting things in the way of custom grips and stocks. If you come up with a good design, you might even find a real market for them, and without having to worry about the Feds busting down your door at three in the morning.

SLS, DMLS, and EBM technology is all perfectly suitable for building functional firearms. You might consider it brain dead media hype but as the cost of this technology comes down the feasibility of functional 3D printed firearms increases.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

13

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

DePartedPrinter wrote:

SLS, DMLS, and EBM technology is all perfectly suitable for building functional firearms. You might consider it brain dead media hype but as the cost of this technology comes down the feasibility of functional 3D printed firearms increases.

With all due respect, I would suggest persons interested in the idea of 3D printed guns take some time to study SAMMI specs for things like cylinders, chambers, and gun barrels.

Without exception, these parts are made of specially tempered, high grade carbon steel, developed exclusively for those parts of a gun that MUST stand up to the high pressures developed in modern firearms so they don't blow up in your face.

When you cut through all the smoke, mirrors and hype on printed guns, what you have left is nothing more than what used to be referred to as a "zip gun". Constructing a device that will cause a cartridge to detonate isn't exactly rocket science. Unemployable highschool drop outs have been doing it for at least a century. At the end of the day, what it comes down to is the difference between a firearm you can safely, accurately and reliably put 20,000 rounds of ammunition through without any problem, and one that may take your hand off the first or tenth time you try to fire it.

In a typical year I'll go through several thousand rounds of ammo in target practice and plinking. I know guys at the range who shoot competitively who go through more than that in the average month. On a good day I can consistently shoot groups under an inch at 100 yards from a benchrest. On the day someone comes along who does the same with a plastic gun they whipped out on a 3D printer, I'll listen respectfully to anything they have to say on the subject. However, until that day comes, you'll have to pardon me for being skeptical on the whole printed, plastic gun thing.

If a person isn't a criminal and wants to own a gun, there is no shortage of acceptable to excellent quality firearms to choose from, at prices that will fit any budget. In all seriousness, what possible use would anyone, not a criminal, have for a plastic gun when they may walk into any gun store and buy a safe, quality firearm at an affordable price, that is so far superior to anything you could make on a printer that there is no comparison?

Even if you accept the proposition it may eventually be possible to print a gun of better quality than current printing technology permits, I don't see that as the question that should be answered. The question that should be answered is if it will ever be possible to print a gun of such high quality that it would be in some way superior to even a budget class of modern firearms. Keep in mind that a top of the line firearm is manufactured to tolerances measured in the fourth decimal place, out of materials that will easily withstand pressures well over 100,000 PSI, with which a world class marksman may use to accurately hit a target a mile and a half away. When that can be done with a printed gun, not only will I change my mind on the subject, I will be be more than a little bit impressed.

14

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Don9mm wrote:
DePartedPrinter wrote:

SLS, DMLS, and EBM technology is all perfectly suitable for building functional firearms. You might consider it brain dead media hype but as the cost of this technology comes down the feasibility of functional 3D printed firearms increases.


Even if you accept the proposition it may eventually be possible to print a gun of better quality than current printing technology permits, I don't see that as the question that should be answered. The question that should be answered is if it will ever be possible to print a gun of such high quality that it would be in some way superior to even a budget class of modern firearms.


It is possible on current technology. Milled firearms have limitations...you should really read into the techs I posted above.  Initial cost of the machine might be prohibitive at the moment but time should take care of that...

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

15 (edited by n2ri 2014-09-11 20:16:20)

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

so which of those plastics is your Elk hunting gun made of out there? lol dont think they allow Lazar guns for hunting yet
the only 3D printed guns I have heard of being fired was a single use disposable single shot 22cal and even that lil thing blew up 50% of the time. so for the sake of this topic I think tose of us that know about guns and like them as much as 3D printing, dont see any purpose for posting same on here and risking having both taken away along with this forum. same goes for anything that controversial e.g.porn... other than accessories not subject to regulation like grips, sights, storage devices etc.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

16

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

DePartedPrinter wrote:

you should really read into the techs I posted above

I might make the same suggestion. This may be helpful in understanding some of the basics. I'll quote a few paragraphs from the following link:

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Revolver.html

<<<Forging the components
• 1 The major components of most revolvers begin as a group of steel or stainless steel blanks that are forged into close approximations of the desired parts. The basic shape of each part is formed by placing a heated blank of material into a forging press and impacting it with several hundred tons of force. This impact forces the metal into the forging die, a steel block with a cavity shaped like the part being produced. Sometimes, multiple strikes by the press are required, each with a more precise die than the previous step. The resulting part is both extremely strong and very similar to final shape.

Annealing and machining
• 2 After forging, the flow patterns of the metal must be stabilized by heat treating. This procedure consists of reheating the parts in a controlled atmosphere to relieve internal stresses without reducing the metal's inherent strength.
• 3 Machining can now begin on the frame, cylinder, and other component parts. Most modern revolvers are manufactured on automated, computer-controlled machining centers and lathes. However, a number of manufacturers have had such excellent service and results with some of their machines that they continue to utilize fifty-year-old equipment. Regardless of whether older or modern equipment is used, the basic process actions of milling, drilling, and tapping are essentially the same. The tolerances on this machining must be held within one or two thousandths of an inch. All of the components, from the screws to the trigger, are machined using similar processes.
• 4 To effectively machine the raw forging, a worker clamps it into a holding apparatus that secures the part during machining. Properly designed fixtures also contain tool guides and bushings to support the cutting tool and increase accuracy. Many of the operations performed will require several specialized fixtures. Cylinders, screws, shafts, and barrels are made on lathes while frames, sideplates, sights, and triggers are made on a milling and machining center.>>>

Truly, there is a lot more to it than making hot puddles out of powdered metal.

17

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Wow, you guys dug this out of the archives  : )

Just to be clear, I have no interest in actually using an AR receiver that was 3d printed. As my username indicates, I am a machinist of some years, and it would be easier and faster for me to machine something that would fire a round than it would be for me to print it out. My OP was more of a chance to test the waters here and see if folks would be opposed ethically to firearms files being posted on the forum.

I'm no firearms expert, but I will say this; while firing high power ammunition out of your 2nd amendment-protected elk rifle is great, there is a guy in an oppressed, developing country who had to build his gun out of parts he found at the junk yard. I don't think printing critical structural components for firearms is the best use for 3DP. I do think that it will eventually allow the oppressed in other countries to build better firearms for themselves and their fellow citizens. They can build stocks, magazines and grips as well as covertly manufacture replacements for procured weapons or other miscellany used for fighting.

Since I first got my SD2, I have used it to make everything from medical device prototypes, all the way to an ar-15 magazine. I'm also designing a custom butt stock for my son's CQB airsoft m4.

The magazine that I printed out could send me to jail in some states. This is America, remember?

Now, for folks in other countries, 3d printing democratizes not only the manufacturing of cute crap you can sell on Etsy, but it also democratizes the ability to stand up against your oppressors. Everyone thinks it great when a tribe in Africa starts making bamboo bike frames for spoiled hipsters to buy at top dollar, but the smiles all get a little uncomfortable when those same people start making weapons to stand for what they believe in, whatever it may be.

18

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

Well, as a strictly ethical question, I have a good opinion of natural selection and am not not opposed to the world being dangerous to stupid people. The more opportunities they have to improve the gene pool by removing themselves from it, the better.

If that's your question, then the real problem is figuring out how to get more printed guns in their hands before they've had a chance to breed.

19

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

machinistjoe wrote:

I do think that it will eventually allow the oppressed in other countries to build better firearms for themselves and their fellow citizens. They can build stocks, magazines and grips as well as covertly manufacture replacements for procured weapons or other miscellany used for fighting.

+1

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

20

Re: Quick question about posting 3DP gun parts

machinistjoe wrote:

Wow, you guys dug this out of the archives  : )

Just to be clear, I have no interest in actually using an AR receiver that was 3d printed. As my username indicates, I am a machinist of some years, and it would be easier and faster for me to machine something that would fire a round than it would be for me to print it out. My OP was more of a chance to test the waters here and see if folks would be opposed ethically to firearms files being posted on the forum.

I'm no firearms expert, but I will say this; while firing high power ammunition out of your 2nd amendment-protected elk rifle is great, there is a guy in an oppressed, developing country who had to build his gun out of parts he found at the junk yard. I don't think printing critical structural components for firearms is the best use for 3DP. I do think that it will eventually allow the oppressed in other countries to build better firearms for themselves and their fellow citizens. They can build stocks, magazines and grips as well as covertly manufacture replacements for procured weapons or other miscellany used for fighting.

Since I first got my SD2, I have used it to make everything from medical device prototypes, all the way to an ar-15 magazine. I'm also designing a custom butt stock for my son's CQB airsoft m4.

The magazine that I printed out could send me to jail in some states. This is America, remember?

Now, for folks in other countries, 3d printing democratizes not only the manufacturing of cute crap you can sell on Etsy, but it also democratizes the ability to stand up against your oppressors. Everyone thinks it great when a tribe in Africa starts making bamboo bike frames for spoiled hipsters to buy at top dollar, but the smiles all get a little uncomfortable when those same people start making weapons to stand for what they believe in, whatever it may be.


So did you ever get it to print properly from your SD2? I'd like to print one, just to put on my shelf!

...sativas are for smoking!