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Topic: What can I do to get this to print?

I have designed one of my first complex models and I am having a lot of difficulty getting it to print reliably. The supports completely screw up the dimensions of the print, but I can't really see a way to print without them. I don't have a cooling fan mounted yet to support good bridging, so perhaps that is the only way but I thought I would ask here if there is some other way for now.

There are some hidden components in the model, but I am only trying to print the component named "base" right now.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am pretty new to 3D modeling and even more new to 3D printing said models.

Post's attachments

Eyes.skp 952.25 kb, 8 downloads since 2014-08-05 

Eyes.stl 27 b, 36 downloads since 2014-08-05 

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2

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Can you upload a fixed stl?  Unable to open it and shows it's only 27 bytes.

SketchUp file is in newer version sad

E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

3

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Krythis wrote:

Can you upload a fixed stl?  Unable to open it and shows it's only 27 bytes.

SketchUp file is in newer version sad


Hmm... not sure what happened there, but here it is. Yeah, I switched to 2104 recently. Didn't think about that.

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Eyes_base.stl 671 kb, 23 downloads since 2014-08-06 

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4

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Here's also some pics of it for those that don't want to bother with the stl/skp

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Eyes.jpg
Eyes.jpg 148.64 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

Eyes2.jpg 209.03 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

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5 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-08-06 00:26:32)

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

And I just realized I can save it supposedly compatible with 2013, so that is attached

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Eyes (su2013).skp 939.8 kb, 1 downloads since 2014-08-06 

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6

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Don't see how you could print this without any support.  You may have to send this out of house to get printed. Some place like shapeways or similar.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

7 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-08-06 00:30:23)

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

wire10ga wrote:

Don't see how you could print this without any support.  You may have to send this out of house to get printed. Some place like shapeways or similar.


That would truly suck because it is specific things like this that I purchased the printer for. This is hardly complex compared to some of what I will be doing. That's why I was hoping to get some pointers now before I get that far.

Supports would be fine if they didn't screw up the dimensions. Perhaps there is some magic to the settings? Something I could design in in place of the slicer generated supports. Anything really.

8 (edited by Krythis 2014-08-06 01:05:21)

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

This model will take some work before you can print it reliably, especially with those two tabs on the bottom. As you gain experience you will learn how to design with printability in mind. For this model i would suggest looking into Meshmixer. There you can do custom support only in the areas where you need it. Attached is an example I threw together in Meshmixer. I wouldn't try to print this without re-doing the support with smaller and more strategically placed columns, but this will give you an idea of what you can do with it. If you decide to go that route one tip would be to first scale the model down within Meshmixer. Anything full size will eat up memory and CPU like you wouldn't believe.

Post's attachments

Eyes_base.stl 1.09 mb, 20 downloads since 2014-08-06 

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E3D-v4 Hotend, MK5 carriage with round plastic wire conduit , 3/16" tempered glass,  Well nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, PowerEdge 2650 500W PS, QU-BD heated bed, circuit board fan, hinged plexiglass enclosure with plastic tray top. Other than that mostly stock SD3

9

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Krythis wrote:

This model will take some work before you can print it reliably, especially with those two tabs on the bottom. As you gain experience you will learn how to design with printability in mind. For this model i would suggest looking into Meshmixer. There you can do custom support only in the areas where you need it. Attached is an example I threw together in Meshmixer. I wouldn't try to print this without re-doing the support with smaller and more strategically placed columns, but this will give you an idea of what you can do with it. If you decide to go that route one tip would be to first scale the model down within Meshmixer. Anything full size will eat up memory and CPU like you wouldn't believe.

Thanks! I'll give meshmixer a try. I may need to break this up into parts and glue them together, though.

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

needed minor repair in netfab also. but if you dont need the 2 bolsters on flat side that would be best side to have down then very little support needed for the 2 screw eyes. make support thin and linear for easier cleanup.

Mitch

Post's attachments

Eyes_base.stl 124.01 kb, 9 downloads since 2014-08-06 

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Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

11

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

n2ri wrote:

needed minor repair in netfab also. but if you dont need the 2 bolsters on flat side that would be best side to have down then very little support needed for the 2 screw eyes. make support thin and linear for easier cleanup.

Mitch

The bottom side will likely have more done with it. The bolsters are just a part of it. I could remove them for now. That would probably help the print a lot, but I think I will still have some issues with the nose piece. I am thinking perhaps I need to cut that piece off and make it a separate piece that snaps in. Printing upside down circles with any kind of precision is just not going to happen, it seems. Unless perhaps I were to make a sacrificial few layers that I cut off afterwards.

BTW, the part is solid and I have netfabb. I can see it complained about some faces, but how can I tell exactly what it has an issue with? I am assuming the normals were reversed or something? That feedback would help me get better at designing. I can repair it, but I don't think I have ever noticed netfabb reporting on what it fixed.

Also, I am still running XP so Meshmixer would not work for me. I had this problem trying to run Reconstructme as well. Grrr... maybe it is finally time to upgrade.

Thanks for everyone's help!

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

I have successfully separated the nose piece and redesigned a few components so I didn't need the protrusions on the bottom. All that is left to be concerned about I think are the eye mounts that stick out. I may need to cut those out as well since the important detail is also facing down though I didn't have much trouble with that part printing.

If it doesn't work, then I will look into pullling the whole front off and make that a separate piece.

I think I am getting the hang of it now. Really want to try out Meshmixer. Might have to dig out a laptop with Windows 7 on it.

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Retroplayer wrote:

I have successfully separated the nose piece and redesigned a few components so I didn't need the protrusions on the bottom. All that is left to be concerned about I think are the eye mounts that stick out. I may need to cut those out as well since the important detail is also facing down though I didn't have much trouble with that part printing.

If it doesn't work, then I will look into pullling the whole front off and make that a separate piece.

I think I am getting the hang of it now. Really want to try out Meshmixer. Might have to dig out a laptop with Windows 7 on it.

I already done the minor repairs on file I re-uploaded. as for the "noses" just inable support material and you can remove the support material after printed. it should do great. I too run win XP serv pak3 with no issues just need apps made for it

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

14 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-08-07 10:20:13)

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

n2ri wrote:
Retroplayer wrote:

I have successfully separated the nose piece and redesigned a few components so I didn't need the protrusions on the bottom. All that is left to be concerned about I think are the eye mounts that stick out. I may need to cut those out as well since the important detail is also facing down though I didn't have much trouble with that part printing.

If it doesn't work, then I will look into pullling the whole front off and make that a separate piece.

I think I am getting the hang of it now. Really want to try out Meshmixer. Might have to dig out a laptop with Windows 7 on it.

I already done the minor repairs on file I re-uploaded. as for the "noses" just inable support material and you can remove the support material after printed. it should do great. I too run win XP serv pak3 with no issues just need apps made for it


And thank you for repairing it, but I have netfabb as well. The things that needed repaired had no effect on the printability. They were simply some reversed faces because I had repaired solids from the inside in those areas (sketchup does some really wierd stuff with attaching lines and faces that make no sense and is not consistent.) Those areas printed just fine already. What I was having a hard time getting to print was the nose piece (would completely fall apart even with supports), those side pieces (warping), and the eye hinges (overhanging things.)

Supports didn't help or I wouldn't have come asking for advice. I think they might have if I had a cooling fan, perhaps. But there is a lot of sagging even with extrusion turned down to 60% and temps as low as I can make them without the extruder clicking. I have tried in both ABS and PLA so far. I am getting close, but still having issues getting those overhangs to print.

Also, of course the goal is for me to learn what to do because there will need to be iterations of this and I doubt I can come and ask for people to repair it for me every time. But, I do thank you very much for helping!

So, meshmixer worked on XP for you? hmm.....

Edit: Just read in the forums over there that v2.3 was working on XP, but it got broken in the 2.4 version which is the only one they have available for download. Grrrr

Post's attachments

Eyes_base.jpg
Eyes_base.jpg 1.72 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

Eyes_base1.jpg 2.09 mb, file has never been downloaded. 

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15

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

I would be trying to make those gusseted screw bosses a full-height solid block, maybe flip the screw over and have that the blind threaded side. Could you change the orientation of the fastening (screw rotate 90deg)? There's probably a solution to the problem here that eliminates the printing difficulty altogether!

Alternatively, pin and glue each of the screw things as separate parts.

Or split the bottom face of the box off (and all attached fastening features) and do the outer walls and the screw bosses as a single part upside down (so the flat surface for the screws is on the bed).

I'd have a crack at rearranging to eliminate the need for support first.... It's never pretty re dimensional tolerances. I try to use it where the dimensions don't matter, and even then model it in myself.

Good luck! smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

16 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-08-08 02:30:33)

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

grob wrote:

I would be trying to make those gusseted screw bosses a full-height solid block, maybe flip the screw over and have that the blind threaded side. Could you change the orientation of the fastening (screw rotate 90deg)? There's probably a solution to the problem here that eliminates the printing difficulty altogether!

Alternatively, pin and glue each of the screw things as separate parts.

Or split the bottom face of the box off (and all attached fastening features) and do the outer walls and the screw bosses as a single part upside down (so the flat surface for the screws is on the bed).

I'd have a crack at rearranging to eliminate the need for support first.... It's never pretty re dimensional tolerances. I try to use it where the dimensions don't matter, and even then model it in myself.

Good luck! smile

Which part are you referring to when you say "screw bosses?" Do you mean the parts that are overhanging the most? Unfortunately for its application, it cannot be changed. I have cut them out though and printed them by themselves and they came out great. I just need to open up the slot they go back into just a bit (tolerances and all that.)

So, so far so good. I am getting a little warping on those side pieces, but that is going to be a pain to cut out. I may look at adding a coin to them to hold them down.

I have a feeling that my supports settings are probably not optimal. I wouldn't expect them to be perfect, but completely drooping, sagging, and distorting the part is not something I expected. Almost makes them useless!

I still need to add two more servo trays on the bottom side! I am going to get a bit creative there and just make them so I can glue them on. I will probably be removing a ton of unneeded material as well in this model.

17

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

ABS and acetone are your friend.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

wardjr wrote:

ABS and acetone are your friend.


More like "necessary ally." Oh, how I dream of a day when you just hit print and everything just comes out exactly as you designed it. One day!

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Oh you can, if you have a industry 3D printer. Till then, we have to make due with what we can afford smile

Retroplayer wrote:

More like "necessary ally." Oh, how I dream of a day when you just hit print and everything just comes out exactly as you designed it. One day!

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

wire10ga wrote:

Oh you can, if you have a industry 3D printer. Till then, we have to make due with what we can afford smile


I just learned that we have one at my work that has been broken down for about 7 years. I am not sure why they never repaired it. I am working to transfer it to my department so I can fix it and see what it can do. I even put a few probes in to make sure it is given to me if they plan to toss it. I forget the exact model, but it is a large Z-Corp SLS printer.

It was probably abandoned because the people that knew how to use it had moved on. I work in the avionics industry so there is all kinds of stuff laying around, abandoned. Every once in a while I convince the company to let me take it.

Cross your fingers for me!

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

Fully understand... Hope you get access to it one way or the other.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

22

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

yes many none technical bosses abandon tools they dont know how to figure out lol. what slicer are you using for G-code?

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

23

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

n2ri wrote:

yes many none technical bosses abandon tools they dont know how to figure out lol. what slicer are you using for G-code?


I have been using Cura a lot lately. I prefer it over Slic3r, but I couldn't give you a specific reason why. Maybe the settings are just a little easier to understand.

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Re: What can I do to get this to print?

I have only been able to get good prints and settings for things like support etc using the new version of Slic3r that comes with the latest repetier host. gave up on skienforge even as it seem stuck on stupid

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

25

Re: What can I do to get this to print?

also many times if you change scale on object you have to save it as new named STL then check with Netfab again in case rescaling caused errors in model

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs