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Topic: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I've had the Ninjaflex filament for awhile but the old acrylic extruder didn't keep the filament straight enough for me to even push any length of it out.

I'm using the bowden version of the E3D head, I'm not sure if they actually differ in regards to that but just in case.  With the Mk5 and open end of the E3D it was actually worse feeding in, so I just stuck in a small section of the PTFE that came with the new hotend.  Don't mind the gap in the bottom of the Mk5 big_smile, my octave green gained some moisture and I can see stress marks in the filament from the end of the roll hmm.
http://i.imgur.com/Vv2KOss.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q5aN3uT.jpg

This is right after I printed the 0.5mm single wall test, you can see how flexible it is there.
http://i.imgur.com/yZJmsgH.jpg

I tried to break/tear it but it holds its own, even with just 1 wall thick.  I couldn't tear the layers apart either, they just stretch.
http://i.imgur.com/dxI9vYJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J3wPDXJ.jpg

This thing is ssllooww going right now, I went ahead and started it at just 10mm/s.  I'll try later to see what speeds are attainable.  She is singing a different tune at this pace.  The tire I have from Thingiverse is supposed to take over 2 hours, but I'm going to stop it quite a bit before then I think.  It has a few more walls and should be usable on the wheel that is also in the pack.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

How hard are you pressing in that last picture? Does it retain its original shape after being deformed like that?

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I could press as hard as i wanted. I tried ripping it, pulling the layers apart, stretching it.  No layer separation at all, even pulling it twice its width it still has its shape.   I can't even pull the brim off of it.

I actually let the tire finish printing.  This is some awesome material.  It even seems cut resistant.  It is real runny, I'm probably going to try turning the temps down some more.  When it would make moves across it left little blobs in a line up the inside.  I couldn't cut them off with a utility knife.

I didn't have feed issues. I left a large loop hang behind the desk and would occasionally turn the spool to get more slack.  I haven't gone over 10mm/s yet though.  This will make awesome joints.

Now with this rubbery material, and the new carbon fiber filament i can download a car!  I would suggest getting some of this.  Seems to smell less than abs too.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I have thought about ordering some of this for some time but have not yet had an application in mind.


Do you think that same part would stick to the bed just fine without the brim?

What temps were you printing at?

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I'm sure it would have stuck fine without the brim. I didn't even change many of the settings, Just lowered the temp to 210c for the hot end and kept the bed at 115c.

I'm going to print more with it tonight.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Now we need a tutorial on how hard it is to switch filaments given the different temps and wot-not :-).

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

How is it when cut with scissors or a razor blade?

8 (edited by accusedmonk 2014-05-08 05:18:30)

Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Printing the single wall and this tire from here http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:42828, all I changed from my regular 0.3mm settings was lowering the temp from 230 to 210, and lowering the speed from 50 to 10.  It seems a bit runny, and I think the width is a bit low.  Small adjustment in filament width, extrusion multiplier, and a tad lower on temp should put it in a butter zone.

The tops don't connect well, the strands are a bit too narrow.
http://i.imgur.com/T1lqiSv.jpg

I can fold it however, inside out even, still doesn't affect shape or anything.
http://i.imgur.com/m6NktIy.jpg

Here I tried to cut it with my utility knife for knowack, the little scratch down the middle is all it did.  To cut it you have to lay pressure down on it against a hard surface.  Its pretty cut resistant.  I can't pull the brim off of it, the piece hanging off in the picture above is where I tried cutting it.
http://i.imgur.com/HX174s9.jpg

I pulled it with two fingers on each side as far as I could and it just stretched and went right back to the printed shape.  Dragging it across different surfaces, even though it feels slick, it has good grip on fabric, tile, and wood.  I really just want to make a mud bogging RC monster right now ha.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Will it smooth with acetone?

10 (edited by accusedmonk 2014-05-03 02:29:41)

Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I brushed some acetone on the cube I printed but it didn't seem to have hardly any effect except for dulling the glossy finish.

Edit:
I dipped the single wall into a little cup of acetone, it doesn't get smoother, it just breaks all the bonds.  The cube surface actually got rougher, the other 3 sides are quite smooth in comparison now.

Quick conclusion from minimal experimentation, acetone is detrimental to the quality of Ninjaflex prints.

While printing the cube, I tested upping the speed a bit.  That didn't go well at all.  Between upping the extrusion multiplier and filament diameter a bit to regain proper width, that alone was enough to where I had to slow down my infills from my first two runs.  I tried running the perimeters at 20mm/s, and infills at 25mm/s but it would just bend in the extruder.  I dropped everything to 10mm/s and it ran fine.

I don't have anything securing the PTFE at the top, so it was getting pushed over against the gear.  That certainly wasn't making it easier for the filament to travel in the intended direction.  I believe a slight redesign would help tremendously in attaining better speeds restricted by filament binding.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Thanks for answering and thanks for such an informative thread.

It sounds like good stuff.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

lawsy wrote:

Thanks for answering and thanks for such an informative thread.

It sounds like good stuff.


Really, thanks for the info.  Do you have a link for a source?

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I have been playing with it, and I really like the ptfe with the extruder.  Most of my prints tend to come out of the side right now.  I think of this material as moldable rubberbands.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

accusedmonk wrote:

I've had the Ninjaflex filament for awhile but the old acrylic extruder didn't keep the filament straight enough for me to even push any length of it out.

I'm using the bowden version of the E3D head, I'm not sure if they actually differ in regards to that but just in case.  With the Mk5 and open end of the E3D it was actually worse feeding in, so I just stuck in a small section of the PTFE that came with the new hotend.  Don't mind the gap in the bottom of the Mk5 big_smile, my octave green gained some moisture and I can see stress marks in the filament from the end of the roll hmm.


This is right after I printed the 0.5mm single wall test, you can see how flexible it is there.


I tried to break/tear it but it holds its own, even with just 1 wall thick.  I couldn't tear the layers apart either, they just stretch.


This thing is ssllooww going right now, I went ahead and started it at just 10mm/s.  I'll try later to see what speeds are attainable.  She is singing a different tune at this pace.  The tire I have from Thingiverse is supposed to take over 2 hours, but I'm going to stop it quite a bit before then I think.  It has a few more walls and should be usable on the wheel that is also in the pack.

You should post your ninja flex victories on the 3D printing reddit.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Any ideas to get this working with the stock extruder on SD3?

It just buckles and wraps around the filament feet wheel.. even when i have extrude speed set to slow.

Don't quite have the money for an E3D right now

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:151673
Try that mashup of Lawsy's replacement extruder. 

Do you have a fan on the extruder itself?  Reason I ask is because the heat creeps up bad in the stock hot end, which makes the filament swell against the walls higher up in the extrusion process.  Since this adds friction, the force required to push it through goes up.  Of course that means with the Ninjaflex, and like filaments, instead of being pushed down it finds the path of least resistance ha. 

In this picture I changed out the filament from my stock hot end and you can see just how high the heat creeps up on it especially compared to what the E3D below it looks like.  I never tried pushing filament through by hand on the old extruder, but its quite easy on the E3D.  Try putting a fan blowing on the "cold" end and that should help as well.
http://i.imgur.com/etQq7NG.jpg

This filament would most likely benefit most from a larger nozzle diameter.  For those with larger nozzles, care to share your experience if there is a large difference in say a .4 nozzle and .7 nozzle?  I'll get different sizes later down the road, especially when I move towards multiple heads.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

17 (edited by accusedmonk 2014-05-08 05:26:40)

Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Here's the tire on a wheel I modeled real quick.  A coworker asked where the rest of the tractor is, which is genius.  Now I really have to make an RC tractor for my Mom!

http://i.imgur.com/cMjPpuu.jpg

solijohn wrote:

You should post your ninja flex victories on the 3D printing reddit.

I linked here on reddit, hopefully that's no problem.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

solijohn wrote:

You should post your ninja flex victories on the 3D printing reddit.

Please stop quoting massive blocks of pictures.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

elmoret wrote:
solijohn wrote:

You should post your ninja flex victories on the 3D printing reddit.

Please stop quoting massive blocks of pictures.


agree, fixed it

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Hey guys,

I´m working with the ninjaflex too, this is my first printing.

Accusedmonk, Can you help me with parameters like speeds, temperature and other things?

I have tried other settings but I've had trouble with Extrusion material and I do not dispense evenly, any ideas?

Thanks !!

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Jukalo, I PM'd you back with the config file I last used.  I would go through and make sure it won't be anything out of whack for your printer's setup.  It should be a good starting point.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

What settings are you finding good for ninjaflex? I don't know where to begin.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

23 (edited by accusedmonk 2014-05-13 04:46:47)

Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

Hey Photog, I PM'd you the .ini file I used as well.

A quick update; since I received the pla and have been printing with it very successfully, I made some PTFE guides to go into the E3D.  I'm going to try them out and see if I can get better speeds.  I found that with just the flimsy PTFE tube stuck in the top it would end up bending as well with any amount of extra speed.  Since the PLA doesn't bend and fills the entire gap above the hot end I'm hoping I can crank up the speed to at least 25mm/s.

Edit:
Good news all.  It seems as long as the buckling can be stopped faster speeds are possible.  I'm printing that same tire now at 25mm/s.  My temp is at 220 but it is EXTREMELY runny.  This stuff pours out of the hot end basically.  Obviously that tells me I could probably dial back the temp some, but I put the retraction length at 3mm instead.  I'll see how much temperature affects the extrusion force soon.

I believe one of the bigger factors as well in feeding the filament is having slack off the spool.  It helps to have it free floating for the extruder to pull.  Everytime it has to pull off the spool it will stretch which changes the shape and friction at the pinch point. 

One last bit, I have my bed at 0 for temp and printing on blue tape which I was doing for PLA.  Works like a charm so far.

Here's the updated guide:
http://i.imgur.com/GETfoGP.jpg

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

24 (edited by n2ri 2014-11-05 03:04:29)

Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

can you print 2 of these in ninja flex? my son needs them for his baby gate as originals made of silicone keep breaking apert

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Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: First print with Ninjaflex, cool stuff

I'll see what it can do, im not sure this extruder design will work well with such a flimsy filament.  It will make a great test though.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.