26 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

That's most likely due to the diameter but it could be a couple of other issues

As the diameter increases the input volume to the extruder increases.
As the diameter decreases the input volume to the extruder decreases.

So, if you have a larger diameter, then your extruder feeds in less filament for the print.
If you overstate the diameter, then insufficient plastic will be extruded and the print will look anemic.

Also what are your print speeds, do you adjust it based on your prints?

You may way to decrease speed and increase your flowrate on the base and top layers?

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

27 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

techbuilder2175 wrote:

That's most likely due to the diameter but it could be a couple of other issues

As the diameter increases the input volume to the extruder increases.
As the diameter decreases the input volume to the extruder decreases.

So, if you have a larger diameter, then your extruder feeds in less filament for the print.
If you overstate the diameter, then insufficient plastic will be extruded and the print will look anemic.

Also what are your print speeds, do you adjust it based on your prints?

You may way to decrease speed and increase your flowrate on the base and top layers?

Well the diameter I have it set to is 1.83 (which is the average I measured along my filament) should I just lower it back down to 1.75? If I modify the filament diameter setting will I have to re-calibrate the flow rate and print a test cube?

I posted my speeds on the last page (check them to your speeds and let me know what you think.) How can I adjust flow rate for top and bottom layers? Don't see that option in slic3r? However I'm not sure speeds are the problem because even if I manually lower speed by like 50% in R-H when we get to the text layers, it still comes out that way with those gaps in them.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

28 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I wouldn't worry about that right now
Before changing the filament diameter I would preform the nickle test because if your
x and y are off you will have gaps in your print.

After you do the nickle test successfully, change the filament diameter lower and see if that gives you a bit more fill if you see gaps in the nickle test once you have it calibrated.

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

29 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Just did the nickel calibration. I couldn't get the nickel to fit in the hole the first time, now look it fits perfectly! Hopefully that will help with some of my issues.
Still have gaps between the "striations" of plastic on the top layer though (see pic)

http://s13.postimg.org/gkpzv8x6v/IMG_20131210_021125_286.jpg

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

30 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I'm not sure about repetier-host since I use simplify 3d 
but in simplify 3d you can adjust your first layer speed.

I was referring to you doing it manually

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

31 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

That happens but if you wish to fill it you will have to over extrude on your first layer or set your nozzle down lower.
Try changing the filament diameter lower and see what you get with the nickel test.

Your surface layer looks better now though

Is the nickel a slight tight fit?

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

32 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

techbuilder2175 wrote:

Is the nickel a slight tight fit?

Well, the hole it goes in, slightly loose fit now on the top most layers. The very bottom most layer has a little bit of a lip though and it's a tight fit (because bottom layer is flatter, I guess.) If I'm calibrating for the bottom layer it's good where it is now, if I'm calibrating for all the other layers it could use to be slightly tighter now.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

33 Reply by techbuilder2175 (edited by techbuilder2175 2013-12-10 07:40:10)

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I would still play around with calibrating it till you can get an even circle

Did you try measuring the circle in x and y aside from the slots?

Calipers can be off if to much pressure is applied to the plastic or if your at the slightest angle.
Think of it as if your trying to grab a ping pong ball with a channel lock or pliers without squishing the ball

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

34 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Changed filament diameter down to 1.77 from 1.83, no improvement in the gaps. I think the key might be "top solid fill width" in slic3r advanced settings? I had it set to "0" (slic3r automatic) but the solidoodle default profile wants .42 for extrusion width. I'm going to try one at .13 and one at .42 and see what looks better? It says lower number for smoother finish (which I want) but maybe it was too low and giving those gaps between the strands. Let's find out...

Can anyone post their slic3r extrusion width settings in 'adanced' menu for I can compare? SD Default profile has .42 for everything but seems like having .42 for everything would not be optimal for quality

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

35 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

ok tried my extrusion width for top solid infill at  .13mm and it looks very nice in some spots, nice and smooth finish, better than before. But in other spots there's huge holes now that weren't there before and even bigger gaps around where the perimeters meet the top solid infill.

http://s21.postimg.org/i8ocucbcn/34546j36j.jpg

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

36 Reply by Serin

  • Serin
  • Serin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-08-13
  • Posts: 382

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Make sure your belts are equally tensioned.
I had similar problems til I sorted the belts smile
Just don't over tighten them, it's more important to get them even.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

37 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

What setting should I be using for extrusion width on top solid infill? What are you guys using ?? Also what should I be using for vertical shells and horizontal shells? I'm using 3/3, maybe if I bump it up will be better? But if I have 3/3 and I'm printing something less than 3 layers high how will that work...

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

38 Reply by muddtt

  • muddtt
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Solidoodle 2
  • Registered: 2013-09-26
  • Posts: 276

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I use 150% for first and top layer, but it changes depends on what filament I'm using. Also depends on layer height of the first layer. I tweaked the z height screw by an 1\8 at a time till I got it just right.

39 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

muddtt wrote:

I use 150% for first and top layer, but it changes depends on what filament I'm using. Also depends on layer height of the first layer. I tweaked the z height screw by an 1\8 at a time till I got it just right.

So 150% will come out as a multiple of the layer height for top and bottom solid fill layers?  So at 150% if you are using .3mm layer height it will come out as .45 extrusion width. Is that possible with a 4mm nozzle?

And .1 layer height would be .15 extrusion width?

Or am I understanding it wrong.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

40 Reply by Photog (edited by Photog 2013-12-12 09:43:53)

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

; generated by Slic3r 1.0.0RC1 on 2013-12-12 at 04:19:52

; layer_height = 0.300
; perimeters = 3
; top_solid_layers = 3
; bottom_solid_layers = 3
; fill_density = .1
; perimeter_speed = 60
; infill_speed = 60
; travel_speed = 75
; nozzle_diameter = .4
; filament_diameter = 1.784
; extrusion_multiplier = 1
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.42mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; first layer extrusion width = 0.42mm

Ok have tried everything... Different extrusion widths, different retraction amounts,  etc. The above settings are what's getting me the best top solid infills without as many gaps, but still gaps. I even set my extrusion multiplyer in slic3r back up to 1.00 hoping that the extra filament would help make the top solid layer solid without the gaps between the strands. No go.

With the 1.00 extrusion multiplier, the top actually is more solid now, but still has gaps in the solid fill, and the perimeters are crappier looking. Also my single wall widths go back up to .50mm instead of .42mm.

re-checked my extruder calibration and it's extruding exactly 100mm when I tell it to.

What else could it be?

The only thing I didn't try was lowering the top solid infill speed, but I have it set at 40mm/s which is already 10mm/s slower than the slic3r default and 20mm/s slower than the Solidoodle default profile.

Could temperature be causing the gaps? I'm running at 205c extruding temperature because anything less and I don't get good layer adhesion and the layers break away.

What I don't understand is, that I wasn't having this problem on my first 5-10 prints or so. Early on when the printer came from the factory I was getting very nice solid top layers! It's only been a problem now with the top solid infill now that the printer is better calibrated, printing on a nice glass bed with hairspray, and also in a nice enclosure...

???

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

41 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Have you tried another slicer?
Some slicers perform better on there surface layer such as KISS slicer

What version of Slic3r do you have?

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

42 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

techbuilder2175 wrote:

Have you tried another slicer?
Some slicers perform better on there surface layer such as KISS slicer

What version of Slic3r do you have?

1.00 rc1.

Have not tried other slicer. I like Repetir host a lot. But skeinforge looks too complicated for me and i wish RH supported kissslicrr

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

43 Reply by DePartedPrinter

  • DePartedPrinter
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Colorado
  • Registered: 2012-08-14
  • Posts: 1,478

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Photog wrote:
techbuilder2175 wrote:

Have you tried another slicer?
Some slicers perform better on there surface layer such as KISS slicer

What version of Slic3r do you have?

1.00 rc1.

Have not tried other slicer. I like Repetir host a lot. But skeinforge looks too complicated for me and i wish RH supported kissslicrr


You can export the g-code from Kisslicer and load in RH pretty easy.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

44 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Tried with kisslicer. Same problem with the gaps on top solid layer. And kisslicer messed up the one edge. See pic.

Ready to give up... Can't figure this out.

Post's attachments

IMG_20131212_213806_316.jpg
IMG_20131212_213806_316.jpg 884.08 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.
My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

45 Reply by Photog (edited by Photog 2013-12-13 08:57:31)

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I managed to get my top Layers solid again by setting all slic3r settings to default and bumping my extrusion multiplier back to 1.00.  But the top solid surface is very rough. If i lower my top solid extrusion width to like .25 instead of .42 it looks much nicer, but i get gaps around perimeters where its like the infill dOesn't want to go quite far enough to touch the perimeters.  Could it be backlash? I can fix it by bumping my extrusion multiplier way up to like 1.4 but of course my single walls come out way too thick.

The other thing it, it seems when i am printing raised 3d text on flat sufaces it prints really fast and distorts the text. No matter what speed setting i lower it still prints fast? Wouldn't that text be considered either a perimeter or a top solid?

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

46 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Do you have cooling checked on?

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

47 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

techbuilder2175 wrote:

Do you have cooling checked on?

I believe so, why?

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

48 Reply by techbuilder2175

  • techbuilder2175
  • techbuilder2175
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-07-22
  • Posts: 338

Re: Rough Surface Issues

Usually that slows your speeds on smaller features
if you set it to slow down when layer is less then blank amount of seconds
it will also help with cooling smaller features which reduces warp with smaller features

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

49 Reply by rvanee

  • rvanee
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-08-08
  • Posts: 33

Re: Rough Surface Issues

I've read the thread very fast, so I may have missed something, but my observation is that one of your photos shows .40mm as your nozzle diameter and you are targetting a .42 single thread wall width, which is too small. 

.40mm is apparently the diameter of the latest Solidoodle Extruders; the originally manufactured units (and therefore most of the documentation) were .35mm diameter and .42mm was the correct target for that original size nozzle.

You should find out what the correct single wall thickness is for the .40 nozzle diameter, recalibrate, and assess your residual problem.

I'm sorry for not being able to quote the correct setting, but I don't have time to do the research and verification. It appears to me that Solidoodle's change to the .40 nozzle (from the .35 original) is causing significant confusion and lags in the documentation.

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and
unconvincing narrative." Pooh in "The Mikado", Gilbert and Sullivan

50 Reply by Photog

  • Photog
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-11-26
  • Posts: 199

Re: Rough Surface Issues

rvanee wrote:

I've read the thread very fast, so I may have missed something, but my observation is that one of your photos shows .40mm as your nozzle diameter and you are targetting a .42 single thread wall width, which is too small. 

.40mm is apparently the diameter of the latest Solidoodle Extruders; the originally manufactured units (and therefore most of the documentation) were .35mm diameter and .42mm was the correct target for that original size nozzle.

You should find out what the correct single wall thickness is for the .40 nozzle diameter, recalibrate, and assess your residual problem.

I'm sorry for not being able to quote the correct setting, but I don't have time to do the research and verification. It appears to me that Solidoodle's change to the .40 nozzle (from the .35 original) is causing significant confusion and lags in the documentation.

anyone here know the setting?

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?