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Topic: Solidoodle 3-two questions

I have two questions in regard the Solidoodle 3:

1) When I slice the part using Skeinforge, initially the filament is retracted then the printing starts. Because the initial step is the retraction of the filament, the first few printing steps are missing (no ABS). How do I fix that?

2) The extruder keep hitting the top layers: ironing the top layers, making ABS oozing from the edges, and pushing the walls to the outside. How can I make the extruder move up so it stops interfering with the top layers?

Thanks. smile

2 (edited by fadilee 2013-07-14 19:18:31)

Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

This video shows how before the printing starts, the filament is retracted instead of extruded! Any ideas what's causing this? Only Skeinforge slicing does this. Any idea how to fix it? Here is also the G-code (the first few lines):

G90
G21
M106
M113 S1.0
M108 S28.13
G1 X68.439 Y62.77 Z0.15 F4500.0
G1 F9000.0
G1 E2.5
G1 F4500.0
M101
G1 X91.73 Y62.77 Z0.15 F1687.5 E4.6281
G1 X91.73 Y87.23 Z0.15 F1687.5 E6.8629
G1 X67.27 Y87.23 Z0.15 F1687.5 E9.0978
G1 X67.27 Y62.77 Z0.15 F1687.5 E11.3327
G1 X68.439 Y62.77 Z0.15 F1687.5 E11.4394
G1 F9000.0
G1 E8.9394
G1 F1687.5
M103
G1 X75.73 Y72.399 Z0.15 F4500.0
G1 F9000.0
G1 E11.4394
G1 F4500.0
G92 E0
M101
G1 X75.73 Y78.77 Z0.15 F1687.5 E0.5821
G1 X83.27 Y78.77 Z0.15 F1687.5 E1.271
G1 X83.27 Y71.23 Z0.15 F1687.5 E1.96
G1 X75.73 Y71.23 Z0.15 F1687.5 E2.6489
G1 X75.73 Y72.399 Z0.15 F1687.5 E2.7557
G1 F9000.0
G1 E2.4047
G1 F1687.5
...

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

any reason you're using Skeinforge with the SD3 and not repetier-host/slic3r ? not many peeps out there using skeinforge round here these days....

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Yea, Slic3r just makes a complete mess and so I am forced to use Skeinforge. sad Here is the difference between the two. I don't even know what Slic3r is making. Skeinforge "makes" the part but with very bad quality. For me it doesn't matter; I am just trying to make the printer work properly. Hopefully someone can help. smile

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Did you adjust the z tab before running the Slic3r print as I suggested?  Assuming that is a different picture, it is still too high.  I can't link at the moment, but go to wiki.solidoodle.com and look under the calibration section on adjusting the Z tab.   Also in Repetier look at the gcode preview after slicing with Slic3r.   Set it to show 1 layer and scroll through the layers. Does it look like you would expect, but the printer is doing something different?   Or does the gcode preview look different from the model?  If the lines in the preview look messed up then there is something wrong with the STL. 

Re Skeinforge, did you read the link I posted about how to set it up for Solidoodle?

The nozzle dragging on the top is due to extruding too much plastic. Go to solidoodletips.wordpress.com and look for the posts on extruder calibration and setting the flow rate (in the menu on the right).   

If you continue to have problems let us know what you have already tried to fix it.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Thanks a lot Ian for your response. I switched to using Slic3r instead of Skeinforge because nothing seemed to able able to fix the over extrusion. I am pleased with the build quality using Slic3r and I adjusted the Z-tab to work with Slic3r (Skeinforge didn't seem to be that sensitive to the Z-tab; it did a pretty good job at sticking the first layer without much hassle.) I will continue tweaking the printer and optimizing it to work with Slic3r. smile

Do you know how I can make the printer print in the center of the print bed? Centering the object in Repetier doesn't seem to do it.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Look for the Printer Shape tab in the Repetier settings and make sure that the bed size is set to 200x200 rather than 150x150.   That would be the most likely problem, RH thinking that 75,75 is the center rather than 100,100.  Does it print toward the front left when it should be centered?

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Ian, you rock!!! That did it. big_smile

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Are those two front turning spools supposed to move side to side when the Y-carriage moves back and forth? Or am I supposed to adjust them somehow so they don't move side to side?

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

'should' they is a long mechanical discussion with many opinions wink

But by design, in the printer, yes, the Idler Pulleys are 'free floating'....

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

The reason I am asking is that when I move the carriages back and forth on the Y-axis, those two front turning spools move side to side and the back rod (that's connected to the Y motor) starts to protrude in and out (moves side to side too). I tried so many times to do the X-Y Calibration with unscrewing and screwing the Y-motor and the two hex screws and adjusting the carriage and the back rod then screwing everything back. And as soon as the carriages move back and forth on the Y-axis the back rod starts to protrude from one side more than the other side.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

After the new found joy of calibrating the printer and using Slic3r I decided to print a part.

Attempt A: I printed the part on its bottom. The print quality is good but the part was brittle (the layers sheered off like graphite).

Attemp B (see attached photos): I printed the part on its side. The part is stronger but the print quality went down.

My questions are:

1) In both attempts the dimensions were off. How do I fix that? Is the flow rate tutorial good enough or are there other things I need to check? http://wiki.solidoodle.com/flow-rate

2) In the Attempt B, the print quality went down--namely, there were unclosed areas (gaps)--how do I fix that? Will the X-Y calibration tutorial solve this? (I calibrated the X-Y axes three time already over the past week, so I am wondering if there is something else I should look into.)

Of course, I am also planning to experiment with different infill values and patterns to get stronger structures, but I would appreciate it if you can guide me in regard to the above two questions. smile And over all I am pretty happy with the printer. smile

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

You calibrated extruder steps per mm by measuring the 100mm of filament? That's the first thing, then you need to do flow calibration again as the steps per mm directly impact on flow.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Is that the top or bottom of the part?  It might be under extruding, which would give you perimeters that are too thin, or the settings might be right but the extruder is having trouble feeding.   What is your speed set to?  Try slowing it down and see if the gaps close up.  A calibration cube might turn out right because it has to run slow to let the plastic cool.  The when you run an actual print it goes faster, and might be too fast for the extruder to keep up.

It might be having trouble keeping up if there is a partial clog, there is filament dust in the gear teeth, or the speeds are high.  The filament might be getting too hot too high up inside the black barrel, in which case putting a fan on the barrel can help. 

Depending on how the print is oriented on the platform, Y backlash can keep the fill from reaching the perimeters, but looking at the spaces between lines in the solid fill I would think there is under-extrusion.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

adrian, I did the fow rate calibration last week and I checked again yesterday and it is still good: whatever I asked the printer to extrude that is how much filament it extruded.

Ian, that's the top of the part when it's printed on its side. The bottom has no gaps. I never changed the speed from whatever the default was set up to be. I actually don't know how to change the speed (there are many fields under the 'Speed' option of Slic3r).

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Do you have any other colors?  Black in general has a reputation for being problematic, either low quality or more finicky about what temperature you use.  Plastic is colored by adding pigments to an off-white base resin, so a dark, opaque color like black requires more additives than other colors.  If you don't have another color to by compare, you could try doing some small cubes and run a variety of temperatures from 190-205 and see if you get better results at any point.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Ian, I think you have a good point. The small red filament that came with the printer for calibration purposes yielded better finishes than the 2lbs black spool I also ordered. What's the best colour to order? I guess white/transparent?

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Natural would give you the best baseline since that should be ABS and nothing else.  It is off-white, not to be confused with White filament which probably has titanium dioxide in it for color.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Tomorrow I am going to do the Flow Rate calibration again because the printer is under dimensioning everything.

I have a silly question, is there a power button on the printer that I had missed? Or do I have to plug it in every time I want to use it?

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

There's no power button.  I plug mine into a power strip and use its switch instead.

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

IanJohnson wrote:

There's no power button.  I plug mine into a power strip and use its switch instead.

I'm uber lazy... I use a Wireless power-plug... so now the remote is right there on my desk next to my mouse wink

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

Thank you both for the tips about the power button.

The printer is doing a fairly good job but I am still getting not smooth walls (full of ABS "droplets", it's like the layers are not perfectly stationed on top of each other?) Do you know how I can get smoother walls printed?

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

adrian wrote:
IanJohnson wrote:

There's no power button.  I plug mine into a power strip and use its switch instead.

I'm uber lazy... I use a Wireless power-plug... so now the remote is right there on my desk next to my mouse wink

When I saw you mention wireless power plug this was the first thing I thought of wink http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/wec.shtml

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

ronsii wrote:
adrian wrote:
IanJohnson wrote:

There's no power button.  I plug mine into a power strip and use its switch instead.

I'm uber lazy... I use a Wireless power-plug... so now the remote is right there on my desk next to my mouse wink

When I saw you mention wireless power plug this was the first thing I thought of wink http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/wec.shtml

Yeah, I should have said 433MHz remote wink

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Re: Solidoodle 3-two questions

I tried to print a part with a long slot. The slot did not come out good because the roof of the slot collapsed into the slot's cavity. How do I prevent this from happening? Will Support Structures help? If I turn the Support Structures option on will Slic3r automatically know that the slot needs that? Please see the attached image.

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