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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Solidoodle Discussion → Over humidified ABS.
I am not sure if the humidity in my living space has over saturated the ABS that I've been working with, but generally I'm not able to print any jobs that take longer than 1 hour without a bit of a jam in the extruder that I need to clean out. What are the particular symptoms of over watered down ABS? And other than using the oven, how can I dry it back out without making it brittle and equally useless? lol.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_fb … humidifier
You will hear hissing and pops sometimes when you have moisture in your filament
Symptoms are things like steam ('smoke' its often confused for) coming from the extruder nozzle, popping and hissing sounds, and when you extrude onto your bed a single layer you can see bubbles in it. Extruding strands into thin air will also have micro bubbles in them.
Besides using an oven, lots have used Dehumidifiers or Drying Closets for a few days. Theres also other solutions around on the internet, such as http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:35710 . Just search around for "Drying Filament" etc - its not a Solidoodle specific issue by any means so the RepRappers all have loads of info on the subject 
what temperature are you running it at? and is the extruder flow rate calibrated properly? too low a flow rate + too high a temp can cause the plastic to burn inside the nozzle. how bad are these clogs? are we talking take the extruder apart to get the hot end out so you can poke it with a guitar string? or just back the filament out and re extrude? if its the second, it could be too little tension on the bearing that forces the plastic against the feed wheel on the extruder, or a build up of plastic particles on that wheel causing it to lose traction on the filament.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_fb … humidifier
You will hear hissing and pops sometimes when you have moisture in your filament
How exactly does this device work? It doesn't appear like it is an appliance I can put the whole roll into.
I was figuring you put it into a cabinet or other container, put the filament in with it, and run it for a while. I think I need to get one too; I have two rolls (both sold to me by Solidoodle with my printer) that are showing signs of humidity damage, and I barely made a dent in either (in fact, the blue never successfully printed anything).
what temperature are you running it at? and is the extruder flow rate calibrated properly? too low a flow rate + too high a temp can cause the plastic to burn inside the nozzle. how bad are these clogs? are we talking take the extruder apart to get the hot end out so you can poke it with a guitar string? or just back the filament out and re extrude? if its the second, it could be too little tension on the bearing that forces the plastic against the feed wheel on the extruder, or a build up of plastic particles on that wheel causing it to lose traction on the filament.
I do it at a standard 195C. I've been told 200 and above will do more harm than good, and I have kept the standard feed rates as they have worked in the past. Sometimes though towards the end of the life of my last hot-end, and the start of the life of this new one there are burn spots on models that can be somewhat sanded away. I have been working with support to see if the heat is fluxing too much, but I keep getting error messages when doing a PID autotune so we are still trying to figure that out. Also I've noticed with the new hot-end (perhaps a result of installing the latest software as well) I've noticed the filament sometimes backs out when printing as well as feeds in. I am not sure if it is supposed to go both ways these days, but the print job is not disrupted really at all until it has been running for at least 60 minutes, so I am only able to do small jobs. And I unclog it only by backing it out, and feeding it back in. I will be investing in guitar sting down the road too as well if the problem ever requires it.
Symptoms are things like steam ('smoke' its often confused for) coming from the extruder nozzle, popping and hissing sounds, and when you extrude onto your bed a single layer you can see bubbles in it. Extruding strands into thin air will also have micro bubbles in them.
Besides using an oven, lots have used Dehumidifiers or Drying Closets for a few days. Theres also other solutions around on the internet, such as http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:35710 . Just search around for "Drying Filament" etc - its not a Solidoodle specific issue by any means so the RepRappers all have loads of info on the subject
That seems rather involved, but a good idea. I just don't have the means to print out any parts to complete it however.
I was figuring you put it into a cabinet or other container, put the filament in with it, and run it for a while. I think I need to get one too; I have two rolls (both sold to me by Solidoodle with my printer) that are showing signs of humidity damage, and I barely made a dent in either (in fact, the blue never successfully printed anything).
I am starting to question if I should just go to Octave for all filament. I've only had problems with the stuff Solidoodle sells.
The "golden rod" was made for gun safes so you can think of a compartment about that size. I keep mine in a big sealed bin.
I have a container like that except the bottom is filled with rice and the little moisture absorbing packages that come with the filament.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_fb … humidifier
You will hear hissing and pops sometimes when you have moisture in your filament
I don't think I've heard any popping, but I sometimes think I hear a higher frequency noise coming from the machine lately, but I can't be sure if it is a hissing noise. Not very intermittant.
I have a container like that except the bottom is filled with rice and the little moisture absorbing packages that come with the filament.
+1 for the rice idea. That is definitely one of those, "why didn't I think of that?!" ideas.
lawsy wrote:I have a container like that except the bottom is filled with rice and the little moisture absorbing packages that come with the filament.
+1 for the rice idea. That is definitely one of those, "why didn't I think of that?!" ideas.
Oldest trick in the book. Thats why some restaurants/cafe/diner put rice in the salt shaker... to stop it clumping together... 
Typical - Us Aussies showing you Yanks how its done (Distance makes the Mind grow Innovative )
But - having said that - you do need to make sure it doesn't start growing on you after 6 months 
Its definitely a 'hack' and not without its (eventual) issues
2n2r5 wrote:lawsy wrote:I have a container like that except the bottom is filled with rice and the little moisture absorbing packages that come with the filament.
+1 for the rice idea. That is definitely one of those, "why didn't I think of that?!" ideas.
Oldest trick in the book. Thats why some restaurants/cafe/diner put rice in the salt shaker... to stop it clumping together...
Typical - Us Aussies showing you Yanks how its done
But - having said that - you do need to make sure it doesn't start growing on you after 6 months
Ha, well you guys do see things from a different perspective since your upside down and that backward spinning water you drink probably helps too.
I have used the rice trick for water logged electronics quite a few times. I never thought to make it a dry storage solution.
what temperature are you running it at? and is the extruder flow rate calibrated properly? too low a flow rate + too high a temp can cause the plastic to burn inside the nozzle. how bad are these clogs? are we talking take the extruder apart to get the hot end out so you can poke it with a guitar string? or just back the filament out and re extrude? if its the second, it could be too little tension on the bearing that forces the plastic against the feed wheel on the extruder, or a build up of plastic particles on that wheel causing it to lose traction on the filament.
This sounds closer to the problem in my experience.
dkeeling728 wrote:what temperature are you running it at? and is the extruder flow rate calibrated properly? too low a flow rate + too high a temp can cause the plastic to burn inside the nozzle. how bad are these clogs? are we talking take the extruder apart to get the hot end out so you can poke it with a guitar string? or just back the filament out and re extrude? if its the second, it could be too little tension on the bearing that forces the plastic against the feed wheel on the extruder, or a build up of plastic particles on that wheel causing it to lose traction on the filament.
This sounds closer to the problem in my experience.
What temperature would you recommend? I did try 200C and it didn't seem to change much. Should I set it down to 190C instead? Also what does it look like when the plastic bubbles or pops? I've not noticed anything too distinctive along those lines.
If you haven't noticed it, then you probably don't see them/don't have them. It looks like pitting on the filament and on the surface of the part when you print it.
If you haven't noticed it, then you probably don't see them/don't have them. It looks like pitting on the filament and on the surface of the part when you print it.
I think I have sometimes seen something that might be "pitting" at the bottom few layers of some models. Does that mean it is too hot or the moisture issues?
cckens wrote:If you haven't noticed it, then you probably don't see them/don't have them. It looks like pitting on the filament and on the surface of the part when you print it.
I think I have sometimes seen something that might be "pitting" at the bottom few layers of some models. Does that mean it is too hot or the moisture issues?
If it is from running the filament too hot, it would be consistent across all layers... not just the base layers - including when you extrude filament into thin air over the dump area. This is why I think this approach (filament too hot) as the problem needing solving is perhaps not accurate...
Rocketman wrote:cckens wrote:If you haven't noticed it, then you probably don't see them/don't have them. It looks like pitting on the filament and on the surface of the part when you print it.
I think I have sometimes seen something that might be "pitting" at the bottom few layers of some models. Does that mean it is too hot or the moisture issues?
If it is from running the filament too hot, it would be consistent across all layers... not just the base layers - including when you extrude filament into thin air over the dump area. This is why I think this approach (filament too hot) as the problem needing solving is perhaps not accurate...
So than you would say the filament taking in too much humidity is likely the issue? It does get quite humid around Buffalo this time of year. I plan to break open another filament to try it just as soon as I find a way to keep them dry and make them dry for the future.
I've used over humidified filament before and it doesn't jam on me. I live in buffalo as well so our weather conditions are similar. What brand filament are you using?
I've used over humidified filament before and it doesn't jam on me. I live in buffalo as well so our weather conditions are similar. What brand filament are you using?
I just use the white ABS that Solidoodle sells and it hasn't been and issue up until now. I recently got a new hot-end installed and have attempted to do a PID autotune to see if the temperature varies too much, but the numbers it produced I am told are within normal values, but afterwards it started giving me a repeating error message. And tech support suggested I uninstall the software and install the lastest version of it so I did. I ran the PID again and it had a different repeating error. And also with this new version of the software I need to manually bring the XYZ to the corner before attempting a print. It doesn't check the extruder's position or temp anymore before printing. So the old software actually worked beter. So now I don't know what to do. I would like to think the problem is as simple as the plastic.
After the auto tune runs I also get a repeating error. I disconnect the printer, then reconnect to stop the error and scroll up to the pid settings then enter them into the EPROM settings.
I've heard that darker colors are more sensitive to humidity problems, but I don't know if that's a few bits of anecdotal evidence being overgeneralized. I do note though that the white ABS I got from Solidoodle has never had any problem; the blue I got at the same time has never ever worked; and the light green that came in the same batch worked for a while, then started to fail.
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