1

Topic: Bed heater seems to have failed

I asked about this in the IRC channel and also sent solidoodle support an email, but I'm also posting here in case anyone else has had the problem or has some advice.

My SD3 is barely more than a month old and, given the amount of delays while I went through the "necessary" mods to get successful prints, I have really only just started to be able to print on it.  In fact, I haven't even managed to change filament and successfully print in a second color yet.

Last night, I came home from work and wanted to do a print that would take about four hours.  Not wanting to leave the SD3 running while I slept, I plugged it in, set up the enclosure and glass bed, started up Repetier, connected, and turned on the extruder and bed heater.  Since the latter takes at least 20 minutes, I then went out to take the dog for her evening walk, expecting to return to find the bed temp in the high 70s or low 80s.

When I got back, I found the extruder was at full temperature, but the bed was still in the 30s.  I checked the Temperature Curve screen in Repetier and found that it had hit a peak of about 68 and then started to trail off.  I put my hand over it and it felt like the reading was right -- it was too hot to hold my hand on, but not so hot it burned, just like you'd expect for a temp in the 30s.

I tried shutting off the bed heater and turning it back on, and doing the same with the whole Solidoodle as well as with my computer, just to rule those things out.  I traced the wires from the bed and made sure they were all seated and had no obvious rips or other problems.  (I assume the red pair is the actual heat, and the black pair is the thermistor?)  On advice from someone in the IRC channel I checked the voltage from the power supply and it was solid 12.27VDC.  I visually inspected where the red and black wires go into the area under the print bed, above the insulation (had to peel some of that back temporarily) and saw no clear problems.  I confirmed that everything else seems to work -- the extruder reaches temperature and filament oozes out, the bed and extruder both move, the lights are on.

But meanwhile the temperature kept sliding back down towards room temperature.  After a couple of hours I just unplugged it all and put it aside, having run out of things to check.

If anyone has suggestions for something I can test to troubleshoot where the problem is, or maybe fix it, I'm all ears.

I'm also interested in hearing how hard it would be to replace the heating element.  As this is my first 3D printer, I have had a hard time with some of the directions I've gotten, because often they assume knowledge I don't have (such as terms and acronyms I don't know, or calibrations like "not too tight" where I don't know how tight is too tight), but whenever I can get past the lack of knowledge specific to these kinds of devices and get some clearer explanations, I've got the aptitude to do what needs doing.  I'm not too solid with a soldering iron (I can do it, not well enough to trust my skills on the crowded motherboard of a finicky, $800 device, but well enough to handle most simpler and less fragile things), but I can certainly take things apart and put them back together, given instructions and/or diagrams.  But I'm a bit too timid to start trying to disassemble stuff without those directions.

I'm hoping this will turn out to be as simple as putting in one of these:
http://store.solidoodle.com/image/cache/data/HEATING%20BED%20RESISTOR-228x228.jpg
(That says it's for the SD2 but I wouldn't be surprised if they use the same one for the SD3.  Certainly not going to order one until I'm sure of that, and that that's what it needs, and that solidoodle isn't just going to send me one on warranty anyway, and that I'd know what to do with it if I got it.)

Sorry to need as much hand-holding as I do.

2

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Hunter Green wrote:

I asked about this in the IRC channel and also sent solidoodle support an email, but I'm also posting here in case anyone else has had the problem or has some advice.

My SD3 is barely more than a month old and, given the amount of delays while I went through the "necessary" mods to get successful prints, I have really only just started to be able to print on it.  In fact, I haven't even managed to change filament and successfully print in a second color yet.

Last night, I came home from work and wanted to do a print that would take about four hours.  Not wanting to leave the SD3 running while I slept, I plugged it in, set up the enclosure and glass bed, started up Repetier, connected, and turned on the extruder and bed heater.  Since the latter takes at least 20 minutes, I then went out to take the dog for her evening walk, expecting to return to find the bed temp in the high 70s or low 80s.

When I got back, I found the extruder was at full temperature, but the bed was still in the 30s.  I checked the Temperature Curve screen in Repetier and found that it had hit a peak of about 68 and then started to trail off.  I put my hand over it and it felt like the reading was right -- it was too hot to hold my hand on, but not so hot it burned, just like you'd expect for a temp in the 30s.

I tried shutting off the bed heater and turning it back on, and doing the same with the whole Solidoodle as well as with my computer, just to rule those things out.  I traced the wires from the bed and made sure they were all seated and had no obvious rips or other problems.  (I assume the red pair is the actual heat, and the black pair is the thermistor?)  On advice from someone in the IRC channel I checked the voltage from the power supply and it was solid 12.27VDC.  I visually inspected where the red and black wires go into the area under the print bed, above the insulation (had to peel some of that back temporarily) and saw no clear problems.  I confirmed that everything else seems to work -- the extruder reaches temperature and filament oozes out, the bed and extruder both move, the lights are on.

But meanwhile the temperature kept sliding back down towards room temperature.  After a couple of hours I just unplugged it all and put it aside, having run out of things to check.

If anyone has suggestions for something I can test to troubleshoot where the problem is, or maybe fix it, I'm all ears.

I'm also interested in hearing how hard it would be to replace the heating element.  As this is my first 3D printer, I have had a hard time with some of the directions I've gotten, because often they assume knowledge I don't have (such as terms and acronyms I don't know, or calibrations like "not too tight" where I don't know how tight is too tight), but whenever I can get past the lack of knowledge specific to these kinds of devices and get some clearer explanations, I've got the aptitude to do what needs doing.  I'm not too solid with a soldering iron (I can do it, not well enough to trust my skills on the crowded motherboard of a finicky, $800 device, but well enough to handle most simpler and less fragile things), but I can certainly take things apart and put them back together, given instructions and/or diagrams.  But I'm a bit too timid to start trying to disassemble stuff without those directions.

I'm hoping this will turn out to be as simple as putting in one of these:
http://store.solidoodle.com/image/cache/data/HEATING%20BED%20RESISTOR-228x228.jpg
(That says it's for the SD2 but I wouldn't be surprised if they use the same one for the SD3.  Certainly not going to order one until I'm sure of that, and that that's what it needs, and that solidoodle isn't just going to send me one on warranty anyway, and that I'd know what to do with it if I got it.)

Sorry to need as much hand-holding as I do.

These are in the store, but we don't use them anymore. If you check out your Solidoodle, it has a heating pad rather than the giant resistor of days past. They are fairly easy to replace. If we haven't gotten back to you via the e-mail, I'm sure we will soon.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

3 (edited by adrian 2013-05-10 14:17:25)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

If its only a month old, it actually has an entire different heating bed. The resistor you posted is for the older style beds.
What you have on your printer is a 'mat' of Nichrome wire..

Unless SD are going to get it replaced pronto, the shorter path to getting back online would be to get something like the QU-BD Silicone Mat. The downside is you'll have to probably also upgrade your power supply, but the upside is, you get a 'proper' bed that will heat in <10minutes.

http://store.qu-bd.com/product.php?id_product=61

Frankly, despite some minor hassles with the bulge on it, I would just grab the QU-BD bed, print Lawsy's 'bed modification' template (I'm sure you'll work out an 'interim' solution to get a heated bed working to enable you to print the new bed base... I just used a piece of MDF for a few days and it worked fine....) and be done with it.

Solidoodle will/maybe eventually will send you a replacement for exactly the same low-performing heated bed that shipped with the printer... but you could probably be back up and running with the QU-BD middle of next week for $20+Shipping (+ a new power supply off ebay for $10-$20... have a search in the forum theres a few good suggestions).

This is of course, purely my opinion, so don't just run out and grab a QU-BD... but I doubt you'd regret it over the stock heater...

4

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

The resistor didn't look like anything that I could see fitting inside the bed, but it was the closest thing I could find in the parts listing, and I thought, maybe it's in there somewhere!

Support emailed me back while I was reading these posts, asking me to test the resistance of the bed.  I'll do that first thing when I get home this evening.

adrian, the bed modification you're talking about is the one in this thread?  I'm not averse to doing a mod, provided I can follow the instructions -- and if I'm going to have to be disassembling things to install something, I'm just as happy to do something better and save the risk and effort of doing it twice -- as long as I can follow the directions.  I'm going to try to read that thread carefully to see if I think I can follow all of it (not sure if I'll have time to today -- I'm at work and it turns out all my staff are either off, on the road, or out sick, so I have to hold down the fort single-handedly).  Maybe it'll shed some light for me on what I'd have to do to replace the heating unit even if I'm just putting in a replacement from Solidoodle.  (I'm hesitant to try resoldering my power supply, though; much rather just buy a new one if that's a possibility.)

5 (edited by adrian 2013-05-10 14:30:35)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

yup, thats the thread.

Because of the bulge in the QU-BD, lawsy's mod works on the top side of the aluminium plate. When you get a replacement from SD, it'll most likely be the entire aluminium plate with the heated bed and wool already applied.. so you'd just be unscrewing the 3 bolts and replacing the plate.

If you go the QU-BD route, you can buy an off-the-shelf power supply  - It'll be more exxy than the choices of say using an old Dell Server PSU but that will require you to do some soldering to attach the wires to run to the Solidoodle board where they simply screw into the terminals - so a little bit of soldering required, but only on the Power Supply side not on the board on the SD itself, there the wires will just screw in. It basically also involves removing the aluminium plate as well, but this time you are doing it to bolt the printed plastic pieces ontop of it. That thread also shows my temporary solution having the whole thing bolted to simply a wooden platform that replaced the entire aluminium plate.

But yeah, have a read of that thread you linked, it will if nothing else, provide food for thought.

6

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

I skimmed it and I think it may be a bit deeper than I want to try to get right now.  The soldering for the power supply makes me anxious even if it's on the other side because, while I can solder, I don't have a delicate hand with it, and I'm anxious about the heat propagating through to more heat-sensitive components.  Quicker heat-up would be nice, and maybe once the printer is up and running I'll print those bed parts and stash them for a future day, but after I'm more familiar with all this.

I'm curious about your comment about using MDF though.  You mean you use a piece of MDF as an unheated print bed instead of the glass, and you're able to print ABS on it well enough to print lawsy's bed mods?  This is the first I've heard of using MDF at all.  When you commented about printing temporarily, what flashed into my mind was "maybe that'd be the time to finally experiment with printing PLA", not the idea of using neither Kapton nor glass for the bed.  Time to search the forum for yet another new topic!

7 (edited by adrian 2013-05-10 15:13:15)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

I should have explained better - I used the MDF as a replacement for the aluminium plate. That way I could chisel a pocket to fit the bulge in the QU-BD bed without touching my existing aluminium bed.

I then had a piece of glass clipped to the top.. then I printed the bed mods, and added them to a new much thinner piece of MDF and used that as a bed base.

And you can use PLA on kapton or blue painters tape btw - just use a cold bed or only heat it to 60°C smile

EDIT; as an aside, you'd probably be safe doing the soldering on something like a Dell PSU... they are designed for high heat and high current where you are soldering... you could probably use a Gas Axe to solder it and still not harm the damn things ! smile smile But I totally get your trepidation none the less! Just wanted to include that you'd actually have little chance of killing something due to heat on a heavy duty power supply...

8 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-05-10 15:23:59)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Okay, that makes a lot more sense about the MDF.

And reassuring about the soldering too, but I'm going to hold off to see what Solidoodle Support recommends after I can get home and test the resistance on the heating element before I dig any deeper into this approach.

But even if I don't do the heating bed replacement mod now, I greatly appreciate the explanation about it, and I'll keep it in mind for some later point, after I "level up" a few more times smile

I do need to get around to learning what extruder settings to use for PLA and how to switch between it and ABS without making a huge mess of both, but that's also something that can wait a bit.

9

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

I second tech supports suggestion of checking the resistance of the bed heater. It could be as simple as a bad wire from to the heater. That would be an easy fix. When you checked the 12V line did you check it at the back of the printer or at the heater?

TiM

10

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

The resistance of the bed was around 57K ohm.  For comparison, the thermistor was around 117K ohm at room temperature.  I emailed that to Support but it must have missed them leaving for the day as I haven't heard back.

The 12V measurement was at the point where the power supply goes into the circuit board.

11

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

SD support says that's a failed bed and wants to replace it.

All this time I've been worried about how hard it would be to replace... if I had realized that the "leveling" screws are actually all that holds the bed on, I would have looked at this ages ago.  So now I have the bed off.

Just waiting to hear about whether they want me to send the whole assembly (insulation, heating element, aluminum plate, and Kapton), or to peel them apart.  The heating bed looks to be stuck on that aluminum plate pretty darned hard, and I wonder if I can remove it without damaging it.  Which wouldn't matter since it's broken, except Solidoodle intends to return it for a refund from their supplier, and if it's got gouges in it from me manhandling it, that might be harder for them.

Hope I get an answer in time to make today's mail collection, though that's not far off.  I'm so impatient because I have like five designs queued up to print!

12

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Still no replacement, they've had it more than a week now.  Getting anxious.

13

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

It could take a while to get from what I have seen from others needing spare bits.... In the mean time have you got any PLA on hand? I ask this because you don't need a heated bed to print on just a flat surface with some blue masking tape smile plus this would give you an opportunity to experience the joys of PLA printing.

14

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Got an email saying they were waiting for the part "to be produced" and then got told in IRC that whoever wrote that was wrong and they have them and I have just been "in the queue" to have it shipped for more than a week now.  This after I had been assured explicitly it would go out the moment as they got the defective part.  But there was some assurance that it either went out yesterday, or will go out on Tuesday, by priority mail.

It's great that it's only costing me the $14 I spent on postage (that was a waste, paying that much for two-day mail for a process that's going to end up taking three weeks), but I wish they'd've given me a more realistic idea of what to expect, instead of explicitly misleading me.

15

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

My SD3 bed heater just crapped out too last night.  I sent an email to support and will also now wait for a response.

In the mean time I think I am just going to a QU-BD and see if I can get Lawsy's bed mounting kit and spacer printed out somehow.

The amount of down time is really starting to rack up due to all these hardware failures.

16

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Still no print bed.  Three weeks since failure, and fifteen days since they had the failed part (and said it would go out immediately).  Friday, Josh told me it would go out priority mail on Friday or at the latest Tuesday.  All I really want is a real idea of what to expect -- I'd've been happier with a "it'll take three weeks" if it did, than "probably in a few days" when it didn't.

17 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-06-05 15:15:05)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

New update: three weeks after it'll go out "immediately", it "should ship by the end of the week".  I think that's the fourth estimate I've gotten off when this will happen.  Based on how well the first three turned out, and how imprecise the fourth one is, it and a quarter will buy you a gumball.

I'm also thinking about the QU-BD and Lawsy's kit.  Anyone else out there able to print the bed mounting kit and ship it to me at a reasonable price?  I'm anxious about the power supply upgrade step -- it's a little outside my comfort zone.  But as I close in on a full month of downtime to replace a single part that died after only a couple of weeks of use, maybe it's time to take the leap.  Doesn't seem like I can count on Solidoodle, anyway.

Edit: Belay that -- since they had me send the whole bed back, it's not an option anyway.  At least that saves me agonizing over how much of Lawsy's mod looks beyond my comfort zone.

18

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

John got in touch with me in the chat room and told me my order had gone down to shipping a few times and gotten lost there.  He then went to shipping to "stand in front of the guy until your box went out" or something like that.  Also said he talked to one of the managers about the problem.  As a result, I now have a tracking number and an expected delivery date of Monday.  That'll put it one month and one day past the failure.  Here's hoping all goes well when it finally arrives.

19 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-06-10 23:38:39)

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Heated print bed arrived today as promised on Friday.  It's installed and calibrated and working.  My first try at a print worked.  Back in business!  Total downtime: one month and one day.
http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/e3/03/9a/27/0c/10645_669635593050789_1465042497_n_preview_featured.jpg

20

Re: Bed heater seems to have failed

Nice print.

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6