1 Topic by IanJohnson

  • IanJohnson
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Topic: Trinity Labs and 3D Printer Pitfalls

There is a thread at the RepRap forum detailing a customer's dissatisfaction with the Aluminatus and Trinity Labs, something that is becoming quite widespread -

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,215025

I thought this was an interesting quote from BobC

I think there are many good engineers (professional or otherwise) who can build a very good printer given plenty of time and money. Unfortunately, manufacturing, selling and supporting bulk quantities to a high standard and in a timely fashion is quite a different thing to building a good "one off", and requires different skills and knowledge. These are usually not things they teach you in engineering school, so unless you happen to have worked in the industry and picked up these skills, the only way to find out is by trying.

If you don't even realise what skills are needed, it is a journey into the dark. This applies to all business start ups really, whatever the field. The realities of dealing with suppliers, putting things in boxes, dealing with customer queries, properly recording accounts, are all things that can overwhelm small businesses. If you are also trying to manufacture parts and do new R&D, then it is simply impossible. Hiring staff means taking time to train, manage and find space for them, so is not a slam-dunk way to quickly expand capacity.

Consider that Solidoodle was originally a few guys in a small shop or garage somewhere.  My Solidoodle 1 was probably one of the first 5 shipped in Dec 2011, and Sam stayed up late on IM to work through some problems I had starting it up.  Given what the order numbers were when the S2 launched the following April, I suspect they hadn't sold more than 50 of the original Solidoodle before they started getting thousands of orders for the S2. 

It took 12 weeks for the first S2's to ship, and the lead time quickly jumped to 20 weeks, gradually reducing until they got through most of the backlog 6 months later.   With the flood of S2 orders, they realized the 6 guys in a garage model was not going to work.  Before trying to ship the first S2 they found a bigger space, hired 60 people and figured out how to produce the S2 in a factory setting, while developing the S3 at the same time.   The fact that they have successfully expanded the company and shipped as many printers as they have is impressive, given that the situation with Trinity Labs is so common.

2 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Trinity Labs and 3D Printer Pitfalls

When people ask me what I learned from the Filastruder launch, the answer is supply chain woes. It's really, really hard to deal with manufacturing and supplying, and BobC is right - they don't teach it in engineering school. I was fortunate enough to read a lot of blogs on hardware startups before launching, and had backups suppliers lined up in case primary suppliers fell through (which they did). I worked and prepared hard, and right now I'm 5 days behind the promised ship dates for kits.

It's hard. I have a lot of respect for jebba over at Lulzbot - they manage inventory very well, and post that they're out of stock when they're out of stock. It seems they've mastered scalability, something few hardware startups do well.

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

3 Reply by cozmicray

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Re: Trinity Labs and 3D Printer Pitfalls

I have been following the TrinityLabs A1 development
hoping to get one -- but now only $3600 pro model available

But you can get a total refund  -- see end of this message.

From https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr … TsSR36A5g0
The Disappointments and Failures of TrinityLabs Aluminatus !

Quote from RepRapper

Since there is no thread about this wonderful printer, i wanted to share my experiences here at the forum.
I started to look for repraps in December last year and spent lot time in collecting informations about 3D Printer.
4 months ago, I ordered an Aluminatus 3D Printer by Trinitylabs, as it was recommended by some people in #reprap irc and mentioned it is a new fabulous 3d printer.

One of these guys was Ezra ZYGMUNTOWICZ, it’s his company and after lots of online chatting, he made a winning statement: "Cause of the Simo leadscrews, there is no printer in the world under 20K that print as well as an Aluminatus by Trinitylabs", and he mentioned that "This printer comes ready out of the box!". Just to highlight that during this sales pitch period, it was very easy to get in touch with Trinitylabs.
At first, I was abit afraid to make the commitment to buying the printer, some people said that Trinitylabs is not 100% serious and in the past there were some troubles with shipping on time.


But, EZRA ZYGMUNTOWICZ promised me, in his own words, "this happened in the past and is long time ago. Your printer is going to be shipped at 20.Feb.13" So I ordered at 5th February my printer.


My Aluminatus arrived on 23.may. This was 3 months beyond the promised date. It was very well packed and after a long waiting time I was really happy that it has finally arrived.
The reason, given to the buyers was for the delay was to remove issues that will allow the 2nd batch Aluminatus to run out of the box.
So let’s have a look what the “specials” included in the printer:
Aluminatus by Trinitylabs is built with 2 leadscrews instead of belts. As Ezra explained me, this variation is much more exact, no ringing effect anymore and printing and of course the possibility to print much faster than any known belts based 3D printer.
This printer is built for long life.
The second batch Aluminatus was shipped with a hotend designed by TrinityLabs that is called “Magma”, so you can print almost all materials for repraps much faster and change nozzles really fast.
The promised time from assemble to build for the Aluminatus was supposed to be 4 hours and took for me 3 days! And I could say I am not a fresh builder for 3D printers, as I already have a few sitting on my workspace.

Let’s have a look what kind of issues i have/had:
- The base coverplate was scratched and looks nothing like what was shown in Trinitylabs Homepage and -Googlegroups.
- Y frame was not drilled correctly
- Cables for X-End homing was too short thus making it not possible to home
- Cables for the Heatbed was too short
- All printed parts are not to par with other printers I have bought, I would go to the extent to say, that it was the worst printed part from a printer supplier, I have had.
- The whole construction round about the couplers is wobbles a lot, creating ringing.
- Heatbed requires 35min to reach 100 degree, batch 1 required like 2 minutes.
- My glass for the Heatbed shipped bowed to be fair I was happy that Tlabs shipped a G10 plate in this batch, this one is fine. Which made it ok.
- The nozzle heater cable was connected incorrectly, and from my understanding this can cause fires
- 2 holes of my gantry connection were not drilled correctly
- The printer was to come with a printer manual which was made available after the first batch of buyers, complained about it. But, when Trinity released the second batch they conveniently didn’t update that manual. Leaving the printer without an updated assembly instructions.
Finally and the most awesome unforgiving errors :
- simos are making terrible noises, no other A1 owner online have this as far i know.
- both Endstops were fixed wrong and cable of X-Endstop was to short to place correctly
- the vent of the PSU was closed by a sticker (written: switch PSU for international) 
- and last but not least, both of my magma Hotend dont work. They just clog. No matter wich material i use. PLA and ABS either, they clog in seconds. Ezra told me to drill the chambfers of the S-barrels. I tryed and both hotends were killed. Im not the only one who tryed to drill them.


I have a mendel90 Set from nopehead and paid less then 700€ for but this printer is a completely other world
As common logic would dictate, I contacted Ezra the owner of TrinityLabs and wrote him some mails, but .... No answer ! i called at the office, not once,...about 20 times.
After several, “No answer” attempts, finally I reached him via irc and he told me, wait 10 minutes “I’ll be there for you and….” No answer.. and pulled a Houdini.
My computer is 24/7 online and I waited for a long time for this guy. I’m still online right now and everytime i get the owner of trinitylabs, Ezra, he gives me few words and tell me to wait for few minutes and he is gone.
So .. 3 weeks ago (the day i got my printer) Ezra gave me a statement.
- you get a new coverplate or a description how to polish the coverplate
- you get a new simo and send me the old one back (ok i will)
- you get 2 new hotends and shipp the old back ( ok i will ezra)
- you get a new glass + a piece of Schott Duran
- we will send u a shipping confirmation
- an online meeting via chat with live help with regards to my bed (guess who did not show up, even after waiting the whole day or the next 5 days ?) 
What happened ?
Nothing !
No shipment, no or just short answers and "ahh... i have someone at the door, be back in 10 min"
My Finale Conclusion... buying Aluminatus was a mistake. If this was an isolated incident, then I would be insane to put it up for discussion. But it is not, the first batch of buyers had issues, the second set of buyers had issues. The first batch, were like alpha testers and the second batch are like beta testers. Only problems, the problems don’t get fixed by TrinityLabs. Most of the buyers, had to resolve to buying additional equipment or even buying completely new reprap boards to resolve some of the issues with Aluminatus.
On my part, I have tried to swap the noozle from my Mendel90 and get it connected. There was way a lot of Z-ribbing and always when I want to start a print, i have new problems - the last one is a bad heatbed connection at the board. For this i have to take the completely ramps board off...so this will be a never ending story.
I’m sitting here for 3 weeks. no running printer, waiting for anwers, shipments and explanations..nothing !
And why this post? So people don’t through hell the way I did, and still going through when purchasing a Aluminatus.


Why posting this here ?
Cause this is a open source reprap forum, Ezra is registered here. I found also here informations about Aluminatus and i believe people should know also about this bad things.
for example about his hotends: [forums.reprap.org]
or here : [forums.reprap.org]
Nice posts but...this guy doesnt care about his costumers, and treat them like shitt.

Might be that ezra is a big number in Reprap -Developent, but not for me and not for some of his costumers i know.
Why people dont make their troubles official ?
I believe they wait for parts and are afraid to get them or.. i have no idea.

Most of this i have documented on my computer.
I am "not" working for 3dPrinters/Reprap Business, just a costumer that was f***ed.
Also i am not sitting in U.S. im living in Europe/Germay and payed alot of tax and costum for this printer, almost 3000 Dollar for a 3D printer that doesnt work at all.

There are people runnning this printers, maybe they had more luck. maybe they invested more money, time or whatever.I think 3 weeks should be fine to get even one small print.

My Mendel90 is also working fine, took me few days for built and some small troubles that were really fast fixed by nopehead.
I dont see Ezra gonna shipp me my parts or help as promised, finally not after writing this thread here. but who cares ?
I gonna try to sell parts of the printer via Ebay and look for a new one.



And here some photos and videos. i have also chatlogs and mailcontact, if there is a need i will publish them to.

Here some pictures and videos:

1) my coverplate http://i.imgur.com/Eq2aVnl.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/vZry0dY.jpg
the one shown at trinitylabs.com
http://i.imgur.com/rJ2gmsu.png

2) my simo
http://www.vidup.de/v/cERRr/

3) my bowed glass & to short heatbedcable
http://www.vidup.de/v/GppAf/

4) PSU sticker
http://www.vidup.de/v/u6SMN/

5) 2 damadged hotends after drill
http://imgur.com/U6v66HL
http://imgur.com/WhohcPa

6) to short cables at X-bar
http://i.imgur.com/cyW5G2S.jpg

7)Quality of the printed parts black Aluminatus / white mendel90 by nopehead
http://imgur.com/59rpkuW,rbJaxwN#0


And finally what this printer is suppose to be:
to find here   http://trinitylabs.com/products/the-alu … 3d-printer and here: http://trinitylabs.com/products/trinity … emp-hotend
"The Aluminatus TrinityOne ships by default with a true Borosilicate print surface for the flattest, highest quality print surface available for 3d printers"



" The TrinityOne ships as a kit but has been mostly pre-assembled and tested before it arrives at your doorstep. The estimated build time form unboxing to first print is only 1-3 hours!"


"While we had some shipping issues in the past, those days are over. This new Aluminatus platform is not only optimized for print quality and speed but supply chain and volume shipping on our side."



"PBC Linear (TrinityLabs co-developed them to precise specifications), are taylor made for the absolute highest quality and speed of prints."



"This means the MetalMagma hot end can print Nylon, Polycarbonate, PLA, ABS, LayWood, PVA, HDPE and just about any type of filament there is currently available on the market and many more to come in the future. This is truly a future proof nozzle and will last you a long time with its rugged CNC machined construction"


"And did we mention the nozzles are incredibly easy to change without taking the hot end off the extruder body or the printer? Just let the hot end cool off to room temperature and take a wrench or some needle-nose pliers and unscrew the nozzle from the heater block and screw the new sized nozzle back in its place and then you are ready to heat up and start printing again, literally a 2 minute operation."

Sorry for my bad english & Greetings
Repper

But you can get a totlal REFUND

Reply from Trinitylab boss
    Ezra Zygmuntowicz    

reprapper, please package up your Aluminatus and I will get you a fedex account number to ship it back to me and refund your money. I've already spent so much time holding your hand that I don't think you will ever be happy so I'd rathjer take back the printer and refund your money then have you upset with the product. Get in touch to make arrangements.