1 Topic by jjcuff1

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Topic: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Not sure if just the filament but I went through my forst natural white SD filament ABS 1.75 and bought the more whiote version. Well it works ok, seems to extrude better but I notice that it has odd appearance but maybe just me since I have only used the otehr one. The machiine seems to be runnign well with both filaments. No skips good circles.
I have fixed my banding and calibrated everything. I know I still have a wobble in the X at around 1" on the Z always kicks out to teh right (see pics) But taht aside the banding seems less then before (good) but also the layers look off like melted or more like a PLA?

This abs sticks and melts 1dt layer way more and will not pull off until I cool bed at least a few minutes

the layers look like less banding or same but there are so many differences in every few layers of patterns. Like melted and fine (like .1mm look) then more bloopy and can not see any layers.

I am not talking wobble, even when I wobbled bad with other film you saw uniform layers.
Also my banding or wobble is just in the X almost? I am thinking maybe too much voltage since the y is almost perfect. I ran calibration all again too.


Is this normal?

Oh and i made a super simple filament holder while I was testing smile

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ywIFpxtCepE/UYhiwuz1LjI/AAAAAAAAAuQ/ow8rhsYQSrw/w920-h690/Photo+May+06%252C+8+05+11+PM.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PN4471iCCEY/UYhi1zhgcwI/AAAAAAAAAuY/eY7OPziL1ak/w920-h690/Photo+May+06%252C+8+05+34+PM.jpg
see the bulgy looking layers? and the x wobble about 1" always appears

This a prior filament print.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W1OBkCpr4ww/UV-BZLB4o0I/AAAAAAAAAtU/z3hyVl5QBvQ/w920-h690/Photo+Apr+05%252C+9+55+21+PM.jpg
I know this image has delamination and cooling issues. but just look at the layers all similar and fine. The new white ones almost look like starchy? It holds ok but has different texture and look even density feels lighter?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2C9bkZqDUkw/UYhi4VFNwCI/AAAAAAAAAug/9owqLzQFIN8/w547-h729/Photo+May+06%252C+8+26+50+PM.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3ELcDwSSb10/UYhi7JMwQEI/AAAAAAAAAuo/ERz8956mivU/w547-h729/Photo+May+06%252C+8+27+35+PM.jpg the sides look flat and dimension are all good. just looks so different

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ayx9c1cKUEk/UYhjIprK4pI/AAAAAAAAAuw/DPI0j0Pgo2Y/w920-h690/Photo+May+06%252C+8+35+40+PM.jpg
and basically 2 press fit holders with PVC uprights for filament.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

2 Reply by elmoret

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

White and natural are not the same thing.

Naturally, ABS is a very light tan. To get white, they add colorant (masterbatch).

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

3 Reply by jjcuff1

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Yes I understand that, so are my results normal? I am extruding at the right width and layers are going down well but does the colored ABS require me to change speeds or temps?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

4 Reply by adrian (edited by adrian 2013-05-07 03:07:15)

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

jjcuff1 wrote:

Yes I understand that, so are my results normal? I am extruding at the right width and layers are going down well but does the colored ABS require me to change speeds or temps?

*every* filament is different. So you may find that indeed tweaking speeds and flowrates helps immensely, along with Temp. Remember, its never one-size-fits-all here...

The colourant will change the charcteristics of the ABS over 'natural' ABS.. we are talking marginal, but its enough to always recalibrate when switching ABS types/colours.

The other thing is, don't underestimate using a new Flow Calibration - I have a 'filament' setting in Slic3r for each of the various filaments I use and each colour... Transparent ABS for example has a flow rate of .84 and I use 200°C.. but the Colour Change ABS I have (Green->Yellow) needs 0.89 flow and a 190°C temp. Transparent ABS is 1.65 average width, the colour changing stuff is 1.72..

All of the above tweaks make it very obvious when I've used the wrong filament setting to slice and print with - using the Green Filament settings on Transparent results in horrific banding like you demonstrate - not because the z-wobble is increased (obviously, as this is a mechanical issue) but because the flow rate is so much higher than it should be it results in lots more 'ooze' on various layers than it should have. So now I always make sure I recalibrate when using a filament for the first time, and then save those settings for future use with that filament type.

Go back and make sure you've done all the standard filament calibrations (Filament average width, flow rate, done a bridging test to work out best tempreature etc.) *with each particular filament*...

BTW.. You mentioned "good circles" - this is a reflection of Belt Tension and not Filament Calibration btw - so its not indicative of anything other than yes your belts are still tensioned correctly.

5 Reply by jjcuff1

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

thanks I will do that for sure

What is the bridging speed test?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

6 Reply by adrian (edited by adrian 2013-05-07 03:11:12)

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Something like http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1376 or http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:9804 or http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:69422 . These will help you find a good tempreature to use that allows effective bridging - which generally speaking will be the 'ideal' temp to work with a particular filament at.

The first one I linked is pure g-code and I haven't used it myself but it seems like a more logical approach to the test. The second two are a straight forward "print this with different tempreature settings and see what works best" - its what I've done myself so far.

Ignore this step until you've checked your filament width (take 10 measurements over 3-4 metres then average this to work out what to stick into Slic3r) and gotten a base flow rate (by printing/measuring www.thingiverse.com/download:140674 for example) . Do the briding tests to get an ideal tempreature and as this will effect the viscosity of the molten plastic, re do the flow calibration to see if it needs further tweaking.
Then confirm that this new temp still ensures good layer bonding. Use something like http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:35088

You then should have the 'ideal' settings for that particular filament which will work for at least the life of that roll and may prove to be good 'starting points' for other similar filament types from the same manufacturer (i.e, yellow's base starting point is a good starting point for red from the same manufacturer).

7 Reply by jjcuff1

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Adrian thanks.

Well burned the midnight oil and...
Played with the Temp and Flow first and ran the call cube again. I get such a variation in readings if I use the scissor end of the digital calipers or the flat end. Flat end reads hi but seems to vary less the scissors I bite into the walls I think but rarely read .42 unless it extrudes way hi.

Well I went down to 190 .82 and 1.71 down from 195/.96/1.75
and printed cube seemed ok still looked a little better no gaps or holes either

so with the bridge model (last one) I printed from ranges 187-192 and .82-.87 and changed my bridged speeds which I never looked at and I had to lower my bridged speed and tweak my flow rate. Temperature over 191 definitely seemed too hot because the circle on the top wouldnt even stick and would drag like everything was still molten. same for the top infil.

It did seem to band ok at 190-191 with the right bridge speed but 187-.85 seemed much better and had good top fill.

I am printing a large print now, repeat of last night to see if it looks different. then I will check strength too, Wondering if lower temp will effect sticking of layers? I will find out and test but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

I do not have a fan and I can see especially on big models with combined small rounds and large areas I can leverage the fan to cool and bridge better while having higher speeds for infill on large areas. That seems to be the trade off. i can get good prints if I slow things down a bit.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

8 Reply by jjcuff1

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Once done I will try a torture bride test pyramid above now I am curious about adding a fan, 5mm rod to get .1mm prints. Especially a fancy globe, or geometric shape to test my new knowledge. :0

Also, since I have upgraded to my SureSteppr my xy have been much more staple skipping and alignment. Although I will stay on top of maintenance I think the current and the heat was reason palolu skipped. The Y seems pretty tight now but the x has some chatter/wobbleness on edges especially on outer perimeters when the head reverses. Since I can not tighten the belts not sure what to do. I lowered the acceleration, helped some.

But I do notice on mainly x only shifts (x back and fourth with little y motion) I notice a noticeable clunk from the extruder head. Since calibration alignment and speed adjustments it has improved but still there. My XY calibration is pretty consistent so Not a tension or software issue. Both XY print my 50mm t square within the same tolerance range about +/- 0.1-0.2mm that seems pretty good for me. I consider most of that is measurement error too point to point

Maybe it is the back plastic rod holder on extruder head.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

9 Reply by promahendra (edited by promahendra 2013-05-27 13:15:50)

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Re: New SD FIlament virgin white, normal look?

Yes I understand that, so are my results normal? I am extruding at the right width and layers are going down well but does the colored ABS require me to change speeds or temps?