1 Topic by solijohn

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Topic: Forum Rules

We are amazed by the continued growth at the Soliforum. Since the community has grown so much over time, we have seen the need for higher levels of organization.

I am proposing (but not at all dictating!) a forum rules sticky. This well help us stay organized, efficient, and keep conversations on track.  If this post becomes a productive conversation, it shall be stickied, and this top message will be edited to reflect the rules.

I should mention first of all, that Solidoodle does not control Soliforum, and that this is a place of free speech. However, there have been some recent calls for edits, bands, and post deletions. Since this is a place of free speech, and since there are no formal rules, Solidoodle feels a little uncomfortable banning, editing, or chastising users.

So we can all be on the same page, let's formulate some rules.

Should we have rules at all?
Do you want any mandate for decorum? Should colorful language (you know what I mean) be allowed?
How rigorously should posts be kept on topic?
Should support threads be rigorously moved from the main forum?

If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

2 Reply by Rincewind

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Re: Forum Rules

solidoodlesupport wrote:

We are amazed by the continued growth at the Soliforum. Since the community has grown so much over time, we have seen the need for higher levels of organization.

I think it is, in the long run, inevitable. So my 2 cents

Should we have rules at all?

I think we should have "procedural rules" rather than "content rules". We shouldn't say "don't talk about X" or "don't say this", we should rather intervene when a thread is degenerating into a flame, or is otherwise becoming unproductive. First a moderator should try to reroute the thread to more sensible grounds, and then possibly commit time-limited bans (24h, for example), and/or close the thread.

I have some Wikipedia experience, and I've seen that if some user is really interested in contributing but for some reason got a bit "hot" on a topic, after 24h of steaming off they come back. If they are not interested, they just give up.

Permanent bans are unfair for users who make a mistake once and useless for trolls who can just re-register.

Do you want any mandate for decorum? Should colorful language (you know what I mean) be allowed?

Personally, I don't like censoring based on decorum. I don't use colorful language myself, but I don't like the moralistic approach. "Sticks and stones..."

How rigorously should posts be kept on topic?

It seems to me that the community is generally friendly and the OTs are in most cases just nice and funny side-comments. Until this becomes a serious signal-to-noise problem due to the growing size of the community I would not be too strict.

Should support threads be rigorously moved from the main forum?

You mean to the "help and support" section? Yes. In general, I would promote a more strict classification of topics (and maybe a revision of the main categories, we can talk about it in a separate thread if needed).

Also, since we have the possibility, I would try to put in the wiki (Brad's or yours) what belongs there: guides, FAQs, howtos, that is, all that is not a topic of discussion.

If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.

Nothing against you, but I think having Solidoodle enforce any rule on this forum would be a bad idea, mostly for a "feeling" issue than an actual problem. This forum is community-driven and community-oriented and I personally believe that it should be kept this way, as it stimulates creativity and a healthy skepticism.

3 Reply by Rincewind

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Re: Forum Rules

Rincewind wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

Should support threads be rigorously moved from the main forum?

You mean to the "help and support" section? Yes. In general, I would promote a more strict classification of topics (and maybe a revision of the main categories, we can talk about it in a separate thread if needed).

Speaking of which, this post should go in the "Site suggestion" section and not here smile

4 Reply by iowajames (edited by iowajames 2013-04-11 13:32:55)

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Re: Forum Rules

solidoodlesupport wrote:

We are amazed by the continued growth at the Soliforum. Since the community has grown so much over time, we have seen the need for higher levels of organization.

I am proposing (but not at all dictating!) a forum rules sticky. This well help us stay organized, efficient, and keep conversations on track.  If this post becomes a productive conversation, it shall be stickied, and this top message will be edited to reflect the rules.

I should mention first of all, that Solidoodle does not control Soliforum, and that this is a place of free speech. However, there have been some recent calls for edits, bands, and post deletions. Since this is a place of free speech, and since there are no formal rules, Solidoodle feels a little uncomfortable banning, editing, or chastising users.

So we can all be on the same page, let's formulate some rules.

Should we have rules at all?
In my opinion, yes without order, there is chaos.
Do you want any mandate for decorum? Should colorful language (you know what I mean) be allowed?
No, some people don't like profanity (I don't, I find it offensive and low brow) and some of us have kids peeking over their shoulders often. This is a 3D printer forum, not a gamer forum where people expect vulgarity.
How rigorously should posts be kept on topic?
Trying to keep people from derailing is a hard task, but this is where a bar & grill section comes in handy, people can go general chat there about anything & a NAG (Nearly Anything Goes) forum should be in place. They can cuss/rant/argue all they want there, as people who don't want to see it shouldn't go (arguments get moved there, but no illegal or grossly immoral talk is allowed.)
Should support threads be rigorously moved from the main forum?
See my post here: http://www.soliforum.com/post/19452/#p19452
If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.
I think community mods are a grand idea and can enforce rules where Solidoodle shouldn't, like in the dedicated forum I suggested in my link above. It also relieves some of the load on SDS' shoulders.

No trees were harmed in the creation of this email, though some electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

5 Reply by ysb

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Re: Forum Rules

solidoodlesupport wrote:

...
If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.

sure i am... i don't  even know that you were moderator here... (i thought that was standard to flag "moderator" as it on a forum...)

in some sector, we call that : "a conflict of interest"...

I thought that the soliforum was completely independent of solidoodle company just because you were not able to have a support platform worthy of the name (No. .. google group is not a support platform worthy of the name. .)

i undestand any decision of Brad on moderating his own forums... but i don't like the idea to be moderate by an exterior company... even if we speak about products from this company... it's like if microsoft moderate forum that speak about office or visual studio...

scent of orwell's 1984...

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6 Reply by justsomeguy

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Re: Forum Rules

ysb wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

...
If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.

sure i am... i don't  even know that you were moderator here... (i thought that was standard to flag "moderator" as it on a forum...)

in some sector, we call that : "a conflict of interest"...

I thought that the soliforum was completely independent of solidoodle company just because you were not able to have a support platform worthy of the name (No. .. google group is not a support platform worthy of the name. .)

i undestand any decision of Brad on moderating his own forums... but i don't like the idea to be moderate by an exterior company... even if we speak about products from this company... it's like if microsoft moderate forum that speak about office or visual studio...

scent of orwell's 1984...

+1

7 Reply by justsomeguy

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Re: Forum Rules

iowajames wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

Do you want any mandate for decorum? Should colorful language (you know what I mean) be allowed?
No, some people don't like profanity (I don't, I find it offensive and low brow) and some of us have kids peeking over their shoulders often. This is a 3D printer forum, not a gamer forum where people expect vulgarity.

As long as it's not a personal attack, suck it up.  If the language is too colorful for your kids, be more careful about what they see.

I'm personally offended by having religious quotes in my face every time I read one of your posts.  It's not a Jesus forum either.  I just suck it up out of respect for your right to free speech.  I only mention this here because it is relevant to the topic and have no plan to ever bring it up again.

Being part of a community means being offended by other members sometimes.  Accepting the differences of others is part of what builds community.

I would hate for the forum to lose a Lawsy or Ian Johnson over a propensity for profanity.  Not that they are.  I'm just saying.

8 Reply by 3DPrinter4Life

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Re: Forum Rules

Yes - censor everyone with a less than favourable view. That's the way to go, you think solidoodle is relocating to North Korea soon? Maybe Dennis Rodman can be a Solidoodle spokesman...

9 Reply by Schieggster

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Re: Forum Rules

I do think if there are threads/members that continually try to insult another member or the product without offering suggestions to remedy their issues or others issues should be considered a bit out of line. I understand that it's up to the Admins, but I do agree that threads that get invaded by "trolls" and offer no value to the community aren't necessary.

Just my $0.02

10 Reply by danny

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Re: Forum Rules

I think that there should be guidelines about advertising, maybe guidelines or rules about language personal attacks or whatever...

most forums have rules about what you can and can't post.

11 Reply by DePartedPrinter

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Re: Forum Rules

ysb wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

...
If some of you are uncomfortable with Solidoodle enforcing said rules (we aren't here to censor anyone, but we understand why you might feel that way), then we would be happy to talk to brad to nominate a few other mods.

sure i am... i don't  even know that you were moderator here... (i thought that was standard to flag "moderator" as it on a forum...)

in some sector, we call that : "a conflict of interest"...

I thought that the soliforum was completely independent of solidoodle company just because you were not able to have a support platform worthy of the name (No. .. google group is not a support platform worthy of the name. .)

i undestand any decision of Brad on moderating his own forums... but i don't like the idea to be moderate by an exterior company... even if we speak about products from this company... it's like if microsoft moderate forum that speak about office or visual studio...

scent of orwell's 1984...

This

Schieggster wrote:

I do think if there are threads/members that continually try to insult another member or the product without offering suggestions to remedy their issues or others issues should be considered a bit out of line. I understand that it's up to the Admins, but I do agree that threads that get invaded by "trolls" and offer no value to the community aren't necessary.

Just my $0.02

This. But in the end, it is Brads baby and he can do whatever he wants with it.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

12 Reply by iowajames (edited by iowajames 2013-04-11 20:25:26)

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Re: Forum Rules

justsomeguy wrote:
iowajames wrote:
solidoodlesupport wrote:

Do you want any mandate for decorum? Should colorful language (you know what I mean) be allowed?
No, some people don't like profanity (I don't, I find it offensive and low brow) and some of us have kids peeking over their shoulders often. This is a 3D printer forum, not a gamer forum where people expect vulgarity.

As long as it's not a personal attack, suck it up.  If the language is too colorful for your kids, be more careful about what they see.

I'm personally offended by having religious quotes in my face every time I read one of your posts.  It's not a Jesus forum either.  I just suck it up out of respect for your right to free speech.  I only mention this here because it is relevant to the topic and have no plan to ever bring it up again.

Being part of a community means being offended by other members sometimes.  Accepting the differences of others is part of what builds community.

I would hate for the forum to lose a Lawsy or Ian Johnson over a propensity for profanity.  Not that they are.  I'm just saying.

Sure, but my quote is from Romans (not from Jesus by the way, that was Paul) and it is not full of offensive language. Frankly, this isn't a forum for it IMHO, vulgarity isn't accepted across the board, I think it should be a rule. I can understand if your mouth can't keep the sailor talk under control (which is utter garbage unless you have Turret's) but vulgar fingers? Try thinking before you type.

You said "Being part of a community means being offended by other members sometimes.  Accepting the differences of others is part of what builds community." Sure, this is true, accidentally offending someone by an uneducated remark about someone's beliefs is different & can be expected (for example), but knowing that someone might be offended by your language and not doing it is different. It's called self control.

No trees were harmed in the creation of this email, though some electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

13 Reply by Schieggster

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Re: Forum Rules

iowajames wrote:

It's called self control.

Exactly, there isn't a need for someone to convey their anger through "Naughty words" It doesn't make me feel anymore for that person, nor does it make their point get across more efficiently or effectively.

Do I think it should be a ban-able offense...

No.

14 Reply by IronMan

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Re: Forum Rules

Everyone is making valid points...Personally, I would not be in favor of any specific rules except two:

1. No selling of products or services (except personal equipment trades or sales) for commercial gain AND

2. No slamming of anyone based on Race, Nationality or Creed. 

For anything else, if someone or something offends a member, then they can either ignore it or call the party out on it.  Soon the offenders will find they are not welcome (and fat chance of getting any help).

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

15 Reply by cmetzel

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Re: Forum Rules

I think there is a need for more organization, and maybe a couple more mods that can help keep that organization.  I'd like to see common issues have a subforum personally to hopefully prevent the same beginner problem from having 20 threads.  That's what the wiki is supposed to be, but that doesn't seem to be taking hold. 

I despise the lowering of conversation into swearing, but mostly because this is a hobby of people with a certain level of intelligence.  This is not a gaming site or religious or political site where we should be getting heated at eachother.  With that said, I don't support banning someone over swearing / vulgarity.  I think the mods should be able to step in when it's getting out of control and temporarily close the thread or through PM ask the person to play nice.  I do however think that there is a line that should not be crossed concerning hate speech and racism, I don't believe that has any place in society and I'm embarassed that my name is on the same page as that post.  For that I support a full and permanent ban, and wipe the posts clean of any of that speech. 

Topics should be moved to the correct location - 100% agree to that.

I agree that sdsupport should not be an active mod as far as content.  Main reason is that we (collective) have had a difference of opinions on items and solutions.   For example you officially don't support the glass bed modification, yet nearly every single power user and countless others find it to be a nearly essential modification.  If nothing else, we can gather from anecdotal evidence that it is an improvement over stock bed with kapton.  I can't recall a single instance of recommending it where someone comes back and says no it didn't work I'm going back to kapton.  They may be out there but it's not common.   I understand why SD does not officially back it, but we've mostly adopted it as an official part of the printer at this point.

16 Reply by nickythegreek (edited by nickythegreek 2013-04-11 22:29:21)

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Re: Forum Rules

Don't worry everyone, the internet wants you to know that it isn't 1994 and you can filter all those fucking offensive words yourselves! No nanny-state required.

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17 Reply by Brad

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Re: Forum Rules

I am drafting some basic forum guidelines.

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18 Reply by Brad

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Re: Forum Rules

First draft done.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2041/sol … uidelines/


Any suggestions? I like to keep it simple.

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19 Reply by DePartedPrinter

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Re: Forum Rules

Brad wrote:

First draft done.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2041/sol … uidelines/


Any suggestions? I like to keep it simple.


That looks pretty good.  You might add something similar to the buy/sell section just reiterating that they can create one thread for their products and cant spam users/etc.

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20 Reply by tealvince

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Re: Forum Rules

Brad wrote:

First draft done.

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2041/sol … uidelines/


Any suggestions? I like to keep it simple.

Well said.  How about something to the effect that the forum is for useful and constructive conversation, and it's not acceptable to use the forum just to post the same rant across multiple posts.  Maybe this can be broken up into two issues: ranting and spamming.

21 Reply by Brad

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Re: Forum Rules

That would go against the spirit of soliforum as its not sharing info or improving designs.

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22 Reply by justsomeguy (edited by justsomeguy 2013-04-12 02:04:30)

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Re: Forum Rules

@iowajames - Peace brother.  We're on the same side.  I was the first one to defend you when you got troll attacked.  I was just making the point that offensive is not black and white and what you find offensive may be very vanilla to others and vice versa.  Therefore the rules should be kept simple.  Brad seems to have drafted rules that nicely fit what I'm looking for.  If I strongly offended you in making that point you have my apologies.

Now let's ignore the trolls and get back to helping each other print better.

PS  I hope you didn't think I was putting you in the same category as the guy dropping N bombs.

23 Reply by tealvince

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Re: Forum Rules

Brad wrote:

That would go against the spirit of soliforum as its not sharing info or improving designs.

I'm sorry.  I don't understand what you meant.  Are you saying it's against the spirit of soliforum to discourage spamming?  I'm all for hearing of people's actual experiences, but I'm talking about when someone posts the same provocative thing a dozen times in different threads just to stir things up.  I don't really learn a lot the 11th time I've read something, especially if a post that just says "xxxx sucks" and nothing more.

24 Reply by iowajames

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Re: Forum Rules

justsomeguy wrote:

@iowajames - Peace brother.  We're on the same side.  I was the first one to defend you when you got troll attacked.  I was just making the point that offensive is not black and white and what you find offensive may be very vanilla to others and vice versa.  Therefore the rules should be kept simple.  Brad seems to have drafted rules that nicely fit what I'm looking for.  If I strongly offended you in making that point you have my apologies.

Now let's ignore the trolls and get back to helping each other print better.

PS  I hope you didn't think I was putting you in the same category as the guy dropping N bombs.

Totally. I wasn't replying in anger, I was illustrating my side. I don't think you were classifying me with JS at all, though I don't like being referred to as a Jesus freak either. I love Jehovah God & have my beliefs & yes I completely believe in the redeeming power of the ransom sacrifice, but I am no freak, at least not in my opinion anyway. (There are many that would say otherwise, but meh, I digress.) Thank you for the offering of peace, consider it accepted & reciprocated.

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25 Reply by justsomeguy

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Re: Forum Rules

Cool.  So, getting back on topic then, how do you like the proposed forum rules?