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Topic: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

I wanted my 3d printer to make parts not to print test parts all day proving that my tension is correct or waiitng on spare parts only to fail on 'real' parts and try again. I have had my SD2 now for a few months and after battling the Y shift issue I finally got some things going last night.

I replaced my X & Y drivers with surestepr and dialed volatile in and definitely more stable and sounded better and more robust. (the buzz of the servos) I adjusted my tension a million times. Here is my test now. With power off and servo still connected I can slide with one finger/hand on the x carriage in the middle and glides smoothly and I can even glide smoothly by pushing on far left or far right of x carriage, That to me is as friction free you can get. But I do realize it is probably too much since I introduced more backlash in the X I think. FOr now I am not worried it appears on smaller 1" dia parts laregr parts or rounds over a few inches all seem accurate and round.

SO after all that I still had shifting and I figure it couldn't by mt steppers anymore so I cleaned my nozzle with just a guitar string and that seemed to work. No more shifting after about 6 prints all night.? is that weird? Maybe it was hanging up on small partial clog and dragging?

SO It runs and sounds good, I do notice after re calibration my banding still more noticeable and maybe with .99 slic4r my top and bottom fill quality is worse lot thinner and more holes on the edges.

I am happy it is running and I want to get back too printing parts for my projects. but I know problems are around the corner. I bet my hot end and then my servos are next. I hear a lot of clunking in the extruder head near the back rod during layer shifts or during long fast x switch directions. I am assuming backlash? Not sure why now I never had it before and belts are tight and setup is fixed?

SO my dilemenia:
1: Anyone have above symptoms and give me any more advice that I havent already done like extruded clunking or fine tuning tension? LOL

2: Otherwise to be safe: I want to build a more reliable printer. This SD2 is very simple and now that i have taken it apart I see the X-Y carriage and frame mounting is a cause for much of the issue. I mean if they drilled the frame wrong or off center all your problems will NEVER go away. LOL And the electronics are overheated and probably quality issues. Not the SD fault but it appears there are better alternatives (which I can swap into the SD2)

A: I am thinking of printing while my SD runs either a Mendel Max or Rostock?

b: Do I just upgrade the x-y setup on the SD to bearings, and better ramps?

I am thinking A is best option since it appears the stronger frame is more rigid and the x-y problems are less on these designs and they easily can handle more speed ( i cannot run over much over 60mm/s on perimeters and rest are 35mm/s and on average I do 35mm/s across the board) otherwise I get drags or miss steps or thing walls and blobs

So for those that have made other printers. Which printer will improve upon my SD problems above and be more reliable? I will spend some money I realize that but I am not looking to drop big money on commercial setup. I am hoping to print my parts, order hardware form amazon, buy good electronics and have a reliable, larger build area, with my own custom tweaks to make it mine and I hope to run perimeters at 100+mm/ss and I know I will have to tweak, firmware etc but I like ot have something that even if I calibrate it every week to run at its best it si something tangible. Like tighten belts till all tight or until they have X slack or backlash. Not just make then loose but not too loose. and each side can be different just do it till it doesn't bind.?

I am thinking the Mendel is cheaper to build and probably more reliable then rostock. The rostock looks wicked but I am thinking the Z axis with 3 legs might have binding issues as well? And the Rostock is probably $$ then the mendel to build.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

Did you see Rincewind's new post (http://www.soliforum.com/topic/1941/on- … r-insight/) about y-skipping due to a computer's USB 5V line being off-spec?  This might explain the strange behavior you've been seeing and might be easily fixed by splitting the 5V supplies.  If so, it's not really SD's fault IMHO, but a known flaw in the Sanguinololu.  I'm certain your skipping is too repeatable to be mechanical and has to be electrical.  As such, SD is no better or worse than any other 3D printer, since they all use the same logic boards.  While I'm sure the mechanical aspects can still be improved, I think many more of us would have encountered similar problems if the design were that fragile.

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

I had similar thoughts about switching to a Rostock when I was going through my y-skipping problem. 

But at the end of the day, when I found out it was just overheating, and I fixed that problem, I also learned that actually the belt tension is nowhere near as sensitive as I was led to believe.  If you leave it reasonably loose, it will not ever skip steps.  Even when it's somewhat tight, I never saw it do this. 

Tealvince is right about the electronics, though - the same issues could crop up with almost any printer.  After fixing my SD2, I realized just how much risk would be involved in putting together a new printer.  It sounds appealing, but I have heard enough bad experiences with custom printers to shy away now.  The Rostock, for example, requires very precise alignment for the base and the top boards.  If they are not drilled precisely, the whole thing will produce awful prints.

I think later, I would like to build another printer just for fun, but for now, I see the SD2 as a great way to learn about the "standard issues" that I might encounter with any printer.

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

I agree guys and hence my questions. I did read the USB issue and it makes sense. I checked (prior to my SD chips) the voltage with just USB power and I wonder if I was over driving them once I plugged in PSU power. Now I know and I feel that I have more confidence in my SD2 now as well. I still have think some of it is psychosomatic since it failed and I think the quality of circles are not as good LOL I did look back at some older prints and the cal cubes all have similar if not worse alignment and my first few layers and delamination are all much better after my calibrations, enclosure mod, glass bed, thumb screws, surestepr, cable guide, filament guides. Wait I guess I have done a lot to my SD2.

It is great machine but I am easily hooked on 3d now and being with out a printer where these parts are starting to make me some money and push my engineering juices again. I hate to be down or limited. I think building a second one even if it is extra $600 worth of shopping is not an issue for me.

It appears for about $300 worth of ramps,servos, drivers endstops all of which I have fixed or replaced now on my SD2 I can easily source and feel confident in throwing together. I just need to print some parts,m order extrusions and I should have a bigger build area, which I would like, (10x12x10) would be great, I could have 2 machines going with at least one always up. Then maybe I can upgrade the SD2 and offer a simple kit to newbies to start out with.

I agree with you on the Rostock. i think it will have its own gremlins for sure. The mendelmax looks utterly simply, robust, bigger and alignment is matter of adjustment not fixed to the the frame or steel case.

The SD2 is not going anywhere and I am not knocking it. i  got it for turn on print capability that no other $500 kit would have offered. And building my first one I would not have known what is considered good vs bad. But now I know smile so I want more good and less bad smile

It appears IAN went with Ramps or Azeeg and that probably improves the heat/voltage issues. I think it would be great to print or have a linear slide or bearing carriage for the Y and at a minimum replace the back rod bushings with pillow block or flanged bearings. That would at least minimize the tensions issue on the back rod and allow for more tension.

I do have a larger 4.5 kg vs 2kg torque servo for the Y. I wonder with that will I be able to run little faster with less tension issues.

I also agree that my torque issues are not as belt driven as i first thought. I do think it is voltage and heat. I guess i can rip out and old 600W PSU from a pc and  a few of its fans to get better voltage and cooling.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

One crazy idea: the pc you are using to print--you wouldn't have it set up to power down the hard drive or turn off the screen or something like that (say after xx mins of inactivity) would you?  If so, the fluctuation in voltage might be causing the sanguinololu to hiccup.

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

tealvince wrote:

One crazy idea: the pc you are using to print--you wouldn't have it set up to power down the hard drive or turn off the screen or something like that (say after xx mins of inactivity) would you?  If so, the fluctuation in voltage might be causing the sanguinololu to hiccup.

Download mousemachine.exe from:
http://www.filecluster.com/downloads/Mouse-Machine.html

Here is my scan from spybot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/jaythedogg/mousemachine.jpg

Just set it up and go, keeps the mouse moving to set points and at set intervals until you stop it. Been using it for many years.

No trees were harmed in the creation of this email, though some electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

It is great machine but I am easily hooked on 3d now and being with out a printer where these parts are starting to make me some money and push my engineering juices again. I hate to be down or limited. I think building a second one even if it is extra $600 worth of shopping is not an issue for me.

I definitely agree.  The ability to have a backup would be really great.  Hopefully someday in the near-ish future I can start a Rostock build smile

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Re: Going to print new printer, is it better then SD/ Mendel, Rostock or ?

I will look at the mac sleep node again i hear that even though set in control panel it is not truely off unless u run some other code

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC