Re: Z wobble pictures
Post pictures of the spacers please
27 2013-03-18 18:42:22 (edited by Schieggster 2013-03-18 18:42:49)
Re: Z wobble pictures
cmetzel wrote:
Post pictures of the spacers please
Just put a picture of my machine over here
http://www.soliforum.com/post/16826/#p16826/
I'll get closer, if needed later today.
Re: Z wobble pictures
I'll go ahead an put the Picture here instead of the other thread.
Anyway, these are the spacers that came under my Z-Motor, for reference I have a Solidoodle 2 #03256
Re: Z wobble pictures
I see absolutely nothing special there. Pardon me asking but, does your rod wobble? At all? Are those the same stand offs used for the acrylic electronics cover? Is that all it takes to eliminate the wobble issue?
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Re: Z wobble pictures
it seems that the spacers are in metal ?
31 2013-03-19 13:21:56 (edited by jefferysanders 2013-03-19 13:23:10)
Re: Z wobble pictures
I see banding on your other prints...namely the companion cube (nothing severe or that will cause delamination, but it really it's any better than anything else I have seen...100 typical results. which is better than suffering like some). The other pictures it's much harder to see and I can't tell because the light has to hit those bands at the right angle to make them really show up...I'm not sure if those spacers are they because of that or a boo-boo in cutting your rod...I really don't see how spacer's would help the wobble. I have been applying a small amount of thermal paste to the bottom of that motor anyway (since it can get warm when using lift/retract a lot...having spacers would mean I can't do that anymore either. I put marks on your CC picture (my marks suck as I used paint lol, but they give a general idea to the frequency of banding) so you can get a idea what we are talking about when we say banding...
32 2013-03-19 13:40:53 (edited by ysb 2013-03-19 13:51:27)
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Re: Z wobble pictures
the body of the z stepper is not shorter than the previous ? (explain spacer...)
but this give me the idea to put "antivibration" spacer (dense foam)... with that the motor can lightly move and follow the moves of a possible bended z screw without added "lag" (it's like the "bendable coupling tube" of the Mendel
on my s2, i remove near all the banding but on the last 10 cm (see on this picture , you can see the banding on the head.. http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?actio … p;preview)
33 2013-03-19 14:38:10 (edited by jefferysanders 2013-03-19 14:39:54)
Re: Z wobble pictures
"you can see the banding on the head"...what speed are you printing? Speed really exaggerates the banding for me in small areas.
34 2013-03-19 14:57:06 (edited by ysb 2013-03-19 14:58:43)
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Re: Z wobble pictures
mmm not really fast.. this is from my profil
external_perimeter_speed = 30
infill_speed = 70
slowdown_below_layer_time = 30
small_perimeter_speed = 30
solid_infill_below_area = 70
solid_infill_speed = 60
top_solid_infill_speed = 40
travel_speed = 70
35 2013-03-19 15:11:10 (edited by Schieggster 2013-03-19 16:52:42)
Re: Z wobble pictures
jefferysanders wrote:
I see banding on your other prints...namely the companion cube (nothing severe or that will cause delamination, but it really it's any better than anything else I have seen...100 typical results. which is better than suffering like some). The other pictures it's much harder to see and I can't tell because the light has to hit those bands at the right angle to make them really show up...I'm not sure if those spacers are they because of that or a boo-boo in cutting your rod...I really don't see how spacer's would help the wobble. I have been applying a small amount of thermal paste to the bottom of that motor anyway (since it can get warm when using lift/retract a lot...having spacers would mean I can't do that anymore either. I put marks on your CC picture (my marks suck as I used paint lol, but they give a general idea to the frequency of banding) so you can get a idea what we are talking about when we say banding...
It isn't necessarily banding right there, it's just the slice or model, because no matter what scale I use (That's 1.5x) I have another cube in 2x with the same mess up in the exact same area.
And my Z rod moves maybe 1-2 mm side to side when the platform is almost bottomed out, but I haven't seen any true "Banding" that y'all have been referring to, even on my mask yesterday I has slight d lamination, but noting even close to the banding I've seen here.
Here's the tallest thing I've printed so far, but as for any banding, there is nothing noticeable, I does appear that I have some belts that might need tensioning, but nothing bad.
Mask Photo here, trying to keep my post small-ish
Windows Decided to Update, canceled my print at 331/400 lines... so now it's a glasses holder.
36 2013-03-19 15:32:12 (edited by jefferysanders 2013-03-19 15:39:22)
Re: Z wobble pictures
The banding continues all the way up and down that print (you can see the pattern), I was just illustrating the frequency with those lines I drew (not so much just specifying that area)...but that what we are calling banding..at least...the rest of your photos have insubstantial lighting, so I can't see them to draw lines on it haha...cool large prints though!!!
external_perimeter_speed = 30
infill_speed = 70
slowdown_below_layer_time = 30
small_perimeter_speed = 30
solid_infill_below_area = 70
solid_infill_speed = 60
top_solid_infill_speed = 40
travel_speed = 70
I'll try just printing her head alone (might be able to get a better idea of how slow it would need to be), although I don't see how 30 is not slow enough...even when I print small detailed parts (idler arm) 30 seems slow enough to deliver quality...heck I run my externals at 60-80 most of the time.
37 2013-03-19 15:51:40 (edited by Schieggster 2013-03-19 16:51:25)
Re: Z wobble pictures
jefferysanders wrote:
The banding continues all the way up and down that print (you can see the pattern), I was just illustrating the frequency with those lines I drew (not so much just specifying that area)...but that what we are calling banding..at least...the rest of your photos have insubstantial lighting, so I can't see them to draw lines on it haha...cool large prints though!!!
Ahh, I guess I understood Banding as something differently, Such as here, when the entire Print is wavy such as in James' photo http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?actio … mp;preview , Which doesn't look anything like any of my prints, but again, I could be wrong. I'll take some pictures later for y'all to take a look at if y'all want.
Maybe this view of that small cube might be better to analyze...
There does appear to be very slight banding, as you suggested. For reference it's about a 37mm cube. This was also Prior to my extrusion calibration (It was spitting out 130mm for every 10mm requested)
38 2013-03-19 17:02:30 (edited by Schieggster 2013-03-19 17:03:34)
Re: Z wobble pictures
I do apologize if anyone was looking towards the spacers as a "cure" I just saw that they weren't there in almost all other pictures and I thought it was interesting, whether it does anything or not is up for debate. As Far as I'm concerned something is different, I don't (Think) have any noticeable Z wobble.
Re: Z wobble pictures
I think yours looks pretty damn good. If you're nitpicking the z wobble you can likely always find something, but white is easy to see wobble on and it's only noticeable on blowups. It's all down to how you like them, and if you're happy with it just print away and enjoy yourself, that's what I'm doing. I may not have the best around but I know that I'm thrilled with what I have.
Re: Z wobble pictures
cmetzel wrote:
I think yours looks pretty damn good. If you're nitpicking the z wobble you can likely always find something, but white is easy to see wobble on and it's only noticeable on blowups. It's all down to how you like them, and if you're happy with it just print away and enjoy yourself, that's what I'm doing. I may not have the best around but I know that I'm thrilled with what I have.
Sounds good to me! I was kind of worried, but it looks good to me. I mean come on, it's printed in 3D, I still can't get over how cool that is. If this is .3mm, I can't wait to print at .1
Re: Z wobble pictures
Just a warning, .1 will exaggerate existing banding, so it'll likely look worse to the eye.
Re: Z wobble pictures
I can see minor wobble on the mask shot you made, but as cmetzel says, that's just nitpicking. A little sanding would bring that down in no time.
If you're a perfectionist, you could try some of the backlash stuff in the firmware, but what I see looks pretty good, and I'm sure if you showed them to someone who doesn't know 3d printing, they'd call it "amazing!" At least that's the response that I always get.
Re: Z wobble pictures
More work, longer process, possibility of more banding. Meh, starting to question it, but I'll give it a shot.
As per the Wobble, I've shown my stuff to people who think it's just as amazing as I do, and some of them even want to buy some stuff 
so I'm perfectly content.
Re: Z wobble pictures
The mask does look really good, my current guess is that the spacers are for getting the screw to the correct height; if they end up with a undercut rod. It should also add a little more space also, so you can easily add glass for better adhesion. (same thing can be done by changing to Lawsy's modified z or adding a long screw or using the plastic from a BP pen reservoir [my original hack] )...guess we won't know the actual point of those spacers really is until SD supp says something about. If we spring loaded the z-motor with 4 small, but thick springs I wonder if we could dissipate some of the wobble that way? Kinda doubtful, but I may try just for the heck of it.
45 2013-03-19 18:14:59 (edited by Schieggster 2013-03-19 19:29:41)
Re: Z wobble pictures
jefferysanders wrote:
The mask does look really good, my current guess is that the spacers are for getting the screw to the correct height; if they end up with a undercut rod. It should also add a little more space also, so you can easily add glass for better adhesion. (same thing can be done by changing to Lawsy's modified z or adding a long screw or using the plastic from a BP pen reservoir [my original hack] )...guess we won't know the actual point of those spacers really is until SD supp says something about. If we spring loaded the z-motor with 4 small, but thick springs I wonder if we could dissipate some of the wobble that way? Kinda doubtful, but I may try just for the heck of it.
Thanks, and there seems to be enough clearance Heres a pic of my machine But again, I could be wrong, and maybe I got lucky in-terms of that batch of Z-rods for the day.
Edit: Fixed the link
Re: Z wobble pictures
Your picture link doesn't work
Re: Z wobble pictures
Re: Z wobble pictures
elmoret wrote:
Fixed for him:
Thanks, I just didn't want to over run a topic with my crappy pictures.