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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → 3D Printer Discussion → no printer enclosures in youtube vids printing ABS?
Has something changed in 3d printers these few years. Last time I checked you absolutely needed to make an enclosure for your 3d printer or buy a printer with one otherwise you'd get warping and bed adhesion issues with ABS.
Now I see all these people on Youtube with their Anets and Enders printing large ABS parts without enclsoures and I'm wondering, am I wasting my time putting mine in my homemade enclosure for each print?
That's the magic of YouTube. They say they are using ABS and you believe them.
well maybe they are using the printer inside a dry sauna LOL.
If you believe everything you see on you tube this old tony has a cat that eats metal shavings and poops hardware and he can break a 1" steel rod cleanly with his bear hands . while mere mortal need to use a saw.
And cheap Chinese printers print like magic. I would not recommend an anet A8 to anyone and am not interested in putting money into an ender to try.
IMHO not really worth messing with abs with a better material options . but certainly will not knock anyone for using it.
I use ABS to print a lot of automotive parts. Of course, I print in an enclosed SD4, and SD Workbench.
-Kevin
every material has its niche. I use ABS a lot for many different things
if you dont like it, dont use it, but for the things I do, that need certain properties, ABS is the best choice.
It seems the industry trend is toward heated chambers so abs is still very common/ popular.
For the record ABS is my preference as well and I think joking about someone taking everything on Youtube at face value is kind of rude?
Also I've used an Anet for a while and couldn't be happier. I am getting an Ender just because I'm spoiled, can afford it and like the sturdier and slightly more reliable prints. On the other hand the "Made In USA" (had that sticker on the back) Solidoodle 3 and 4 were an absolute nightmare of an experience and complete junk to me, I sold them for half the price I paid and couldn't be happier having gotten rid of them from my sight. And mind you, this was after a year of upgrades and endless calibrations. The printed parts of the printer was junk, the bed, the bed heater, the z-rod, the belts used , even the thin metal frame was junk. At the time I realized I had to make the frame sturdier I decided I'm just wasting too much time on upgrades on a probably doomed brand printer (now confirmed).
So Tin Falcon, I feel like you have a slight bias here towards chinese products, maybe just a tinsy. But i'm not here to discuss your preferences.
But whatever, back to the topic, I just assumed there may have been some new bed materials that stick much better than glass + spray or ABS slurry and the better cooling fans and nozzle blower designs may have made ABS less of an issue at least for smaller volume prints.
But if they are removing the enclosures just for better videos then fine, that makes sense.
Thanks.
ok, lets not brand bash at all, k?
yes there is junk made on both sides.
Personally, I love my SD4s (after some upgrades, true) and I get excellent results from them, but they are not for everyone.
Back on topic - Yes, printing ABS without an enclosure IS possible, but not "easy".
There are also more new filament blends on the market than there used be.
As for cooling fans - you don't typically use a layer fan on ABS prints. using a layer fan WILL induce warping much more quickly than without.
As I mentioned above, I print primarily in ABS, and don't even have layer fans installed on my printers. I have no need of them.
As for the videos, did it ever occur to either of you that the camera may be mounted INSIDE an enclosure?
As in mounted on the printer itself, with a clear plexi enclosure around everything?
Of course, it is possible that the prints are being done in something else.
Without actually seeing the label on the spool as it feeds the printer, you just dont know for sure what is being used.
Sorry, I was getting Vietnam flashbacks, I'll stop bashing Solidoodle.
Sure, nozzle fan is much more important for PLA but for ABS as well you need the layer being printed to cool before the next layer starts printing and the hot nozzle gets to the same area, otherwise you risk previous printed layers remaining warm and melting and warping. But this is mainly problem with tiny prints when nozzle stays in the same spot for longer than the plastic can handle.
I am not really bias against Chinese products I own a total of 5 printers 1 sd 4 two Folger tech kits (assembled in USA of mostly chines import parts and two made in Taiwan or china mono price factory assembled printers /kits.
I do advise people to not buy cheap junk kits or printers direct from china. I do know lots of folks like the ender and I have a friend that has an anet A8 and it works for him It s a free market system and one mans junk is another's favorite printer.
I do recommend anyone purchasing a printer watch lots of reviews and do your homework . then make the best choice for you.
Almost any printer will work with enough time and effort put into tuning and calibrations. I also tend to not recommend printers in general as it a very personal choice .
If you watch you tube reviews there are several printers the "experts" have not been able to get to work and IMHO are ones to stay away from.
As far as abs again the material one prints with is also a personal choice. I avoid ABS for personal health reasons. I am undr treatment for asthma so feel it is better to avoid it . I have no qualms with others using it.
Sure, nozzle fan is much more important for PLA but for ABS as well you need the layer being printed to cool before the next layer starts printing and the hot nozzle gets to the same area, otherwise you risk previous printed layers remaining warm and melting and warping. But this is mainly problem with tiny prints when nozzle stays in the same spot for longer than the plastic can handle.
i agree, it is more an issue with very small prints, but there are multiple ways of dealing with that issue without using a layer fan.
slow print speeds down for layers under a specific time
print more than one item at a time
use a "sacrificial" piece that gets the nozzle away from the main print for a few seconds
i have used all 3 methods to run small pieces with no issue. 
Like i said, I don't even have layer fans installed on my printers.
as an example.. the regular "Marvin" was printed as part of a group of 3.. the "Advanced Marvin" used both reduced print speeds and a sacrificial tower to provide enough time for the layers of the loop to cool (note the penny for scale)
and yes, these were printed on my favorite machine - #1 SD4. At the time of printing, it was my only machine.
Back to your original question s
Has something changed in 3d printers these few years.
There have been significant advances in build plate adhesion methods
gecko tekhttps://www.geckotek.co/
As with any product read reviews do your home work before purchasing.
am I wasting my time putting mine in my homemade enclosure for each print?
I do not think so even though I do not print with ABS at home the local maker space has a u print ABS only machine that uses a heated chamber. so there are benefits of warm ambient temp .
the trick with enclosures is to keep the build area warm wile still keeping the electronics and 3d printed parts cool.
As far as you tube goes there are many levels of you tube there are many great channels and there are may wanna bees that are really not to great. ONE NEED TO SIFT THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF.
The bottom line if people want to be entertained, not educated. Get there attention entertain them then you have a chance of teaching them something. IMHO this is where this old tony shines he does just enough stunts to keep people on there toes and he does not take himself too seriously. you just can not believe everything you see on his channel.
fichito wrote:Sure, nozzle fan is much more important for PLA but for ABS as well you need the layer being printed to cool before the next layer starts printing and the hot nozzle gets to the same area, otherwise you risk previous printed layers remaining warm and melting and warping. But this is mainly problem with tiny prints when nozzle stays in the same spot for longer than the plastic can handle.
i agree, it is more an issue with very small prints, but there are multiple ways of dealing with that issue without using a layer fan.
slow print speeds down for layers under a specific time
print more than one item at a time
use a "sacrificial" piece that gets the nozzle away from the main print for a few seconds
i have used all 3 methods to run small pieces with no issue.
as an example.. the regular "Marvin" was printed as part of a group of 3.. the "Advanced Marvin" used both reduced print speeds and a sacrificial tower to provide enough time for the layers of the loop to cool (note the penny for scale)
and yes, these were printed on my favorite machine - #1 SD4. At the time of printing, it was my only machine.
most of those tricks add time/material to prints which I try to avoid. I personally know of at least 3 more reasons I need a part cooling fan for My SD2 which use ABS (most youtubes use PLA BTW)
on large/long prints its hard to regulate temps from top to bottom of print so most tend to separate layers due to different cooling temps, also hollow/void areas like to spiderweb/string across center a bit which is very hard to cleanup and bridging droops if not cooled as it comes out. these and other reasons already mentioned are why I NEED part cooling fan enabled.
most people that had lots of issues with SD3/4 was due to the wider build plate/shafts not having proper added support causing twist resulting in imperfect circles etc. solutions for this are now available in archives on this forum and though a bit more extreme than other mods, are worth doing as Kevin stated. but I dont plan to ever do any 3D printing larger than my 6x6 SD2s can do in fact I do plan to get an Anycubic next fun funds I get as I do also NEED better quality tiny detailed prints as I mostly print N scale Model Railroad items. PLA is not in my future either but a couple other exotic materials are like flexible/rubber type & maybe Wood or T glass type some day down the road. but I have some customers wanting Rubbery material for Carb Gaskets and bumper stops etc. for rare items parts no longer made for. so fume exhaust is also a factor included in all My 3D printing equipment.
These are not tricks. They are solid procedures that have been proven over the years and used by all who print. The brim uses very little material. A tower need only be a few mm in diameter. Seriously the amount used by these methods is near insignificant and if you are worried about that amount of filament I would be seriously considering if this is really a hobby I need to be in.
The stringing you mention will not be cured by a layer fan. That is caused by retraction being set wrong and printing at too high of a temperature. If a fan is improving it then it is simply a band-aid for POOR calibration and the REAL problem needs to be addressed.
I have to agree with n2ri.
I deleted a response from before to avoid drama but now I'm inclined to comment the same again.
No disrespect or insult is intended, but some of you guys are stuck in a bubble and echo chamber.
Nobody seriously prints small ABS parts without a fan to avoid the lower layers staying too warm and melting, charring or warping. Ironically in my original post I deleted I used the same phrase: you guys are the ones putting a "band-aid" to a probem by printing towers or whatever to allow the rest of the print to cool down. It's a waste of filament and time. A single fan draws few hundred milliamps tops and cost few dollars. if you're going to argue our reason for not wanting to waste filament is about money we can argue the same about you not wanting to buy and use a cooling fan. Neither is true.
Same goes to these "youtubers". Most of them are literally OG members of RepRap forums before Soliforum even existed. Their channel growth and public image standing depends on them giving accurate and honest tips and opinions. Same is true for any other education channel about any subject including programming, design, music production and engineering. They are not the clickbaiter prankster sensationaliser youtubers who belong to the entertainment section of youtube.
Same goes to the attitude towards chinese 3d printers. Anet is a modified Prusa. Even as-is without mods it's an order of magnitute better experienece and higher quality than stock Solidoodle 3 and 4 were. Just because you could modify the hell out of Solidoodle just to hopefully get it to print properly doesn't mean it was worth it for most and youtubers or others pointing out stuff like that means we should avoid their advice.
Ender is an all aluminum and injection molded parts printer. It's sturdy and parts come out very damn close to even Ultimaker. Yeah, I said it.
I left this forum years ago and came back having forgotten my old profile and email. But at the same time I joined other 3d printing communities on facebook, reddit, youtube channels and discord. Comparing the opinions and approaches used by people from those places and Soliforum it feels like some people here have been stuck on an island from 2011-2013.
Again, I mean no disrespect, but seriously consider looking at the larger ecosystem of 3d printer communities, you guys are seriously missing out and being left behind.
I never use ABS simply because PETG has all the benefits without the hassle or smell. I simply commented based on what most guides say. But I don't think a layer fan hurts on small parts regardless of the filament. They say not to use one with PETG but I get much better results using one all the time. My Anycubic 4Max is the best kit machine I have ever owned. The prints are near flawless with stock settings. The only thing I plan to do is to add Trinamic drivers so the motors are go from a whisper to nothing. That machine is the best $200 I even invested.
Okay, fair enough, but you are commenting about what is and is not a band-aid solution to posts discussing ABS printing. That's exactly my point, I don't think your guides are from places most people post their guides these days.
Anycubic 4Max looks like what Solidoodle 4 should have been. From my experience with the Anycubic with the Photon I'm sure it prints great, but not sure how much advantage it brings over something like Ender3 which uses the same aluminum profiles sans the cubic design but with plastic connectors.
Okay, fair enough, but you are commenting about what is and is not a band-aid solution to posts discussing ABS printing. That's exactly my point, I don't think your guides are from places most people post their guides these days.
Anycubic 4Max looks like what Solidoodle 4 should have been. From my experience with the Anycubic with the Photon I'm sure it prints great, but not sure how much advantage it brings over something like Ender3 which uses the same aluminum profiles sans the cubic design but with plastic connectors.
The 4Max is enclosed with exception to the top and with a simple mod can be completely enclosed. The panels are actually a cool material. It's like a composite material sandwiched between two thin pieces of aluminum. They add a lot of weight to the machine. It weighs nearly 50 pounds fully assembled.
They use a dedicated version of the MKV variant by Trigorilla. But seems very stable. They use a special coated glass they call black diamond and it works very well. Sticks like glue when hot and the part lifts right off when cool. Just needs a quick wipe with alcohol after every few prints. I need to see if I can source a de-compiled version of the firmware so I can make a few changes I would like not accessible through LCD.
Okay, thanks for the info. 50 pounds seems a bit exessive to me personally.
I already had a custom enclosure for my previous printer and the Ender could just fit inside so it wasn't an issue for me.
I plan to make an enclosure for my whole rack with 3-4 printers & everything inside and use a low volume Fume exhaust fan with flex Dryer vent hose to outside to also help control even temp low enough for electronics yet high enough for ABS printing. using My life long career in HVAC to design it. then it will have magnetic plexi panels for quick easy access when needed while maintaining clean dry Filament also.
isnt PETG what plastic soda bottles etc are made of? if so that has very hazardous odorless off gassing making it an Industrial lab room type use material. NOT for in home use. as does Nylon like weed eater line. may as well be casting Lead toys in home like the old Gilbert Kaster toy of the 30s-60s. they were intended for use in separate ventilated Garage avoiding breathing any fumes or Eye contact of fumes.
isnt PETG what plastic soda bottles etc are made of? if so that has very hazardous odorless off gassing making it an Industrial lab room type use material. NOT for in home use. as does Nylon like weed eater line.
Again your wisdom shows it's age.
MSDS for PETG says simply this.
Processing fumes may cause irritation to the eyes, skin and respiratory tract, and in cases of severe overexposure, nausea and headache.
Standing outside can do that much.
I have used PETG since it was released and even let it print overnight in my bedroom and I have had no ill effects from it. PLA bothers me more than PETG. Something you have to understand about these polymers is that off gassing takes place at a higher temp than the melt temps that we use for printing. You almost have to be burning PETG for it to give off harmful gasses. You would need to heat it to the point the color would change. Most cases of people having issues with fumes are becuase they are using to high of a temp in the first place. The idea is to use the very minimum temperature you can to accomplish your print job. You should never need to go over the MAX temp stated on the filament. If you do then your reported temp versus real temp are not accurate.
based on your concerns about machines, electronics, and materials I honestly have to say that you really need to think hard about this being your hobby or not. Honestly you are to concerned about things you should not be. Just go with what you want and build your machines how you want. Stop sweating things so much.
But you seriously need to reconsider this hobby if the things you voice concern over really concern you.
Unless I'm missing something we all have been in this "hobby" (not sure if me solely printing prototypes for actual injection molded products we make is considered hobby) for at least 5 years. I think everything needing reconsidering has been considered long ago.
By the way those magnetic neodymium magnetic doors for the enclosures sound cool in the beginning but I ended up adding hinges to one side and magnets to the other for locking the door for good (like Solidoodle 4 I believe). Hinged doors are still more practical and faster to operate then just sticking and unsticking a window in place with magnets.
Unless I'm missing something we all have been in this "hobby" (not sure if me solely printing prototypes for actual injection molded products we make is considered hobby) for at least 5 years. I think everything needing reconsidering has been considered long ago.
By the way those magnetic neodymium magnetic doors for the enclosures sound cool in the beginning but I ended up adding hinges to one side and magnets to the other for locking the door for good (like Solidoodle 4 I believe). Hinged doors are still more practical and faster to operate then just sticking and unsticking a window in place with magnets.
Not sure where you are getting your info but the door on my 4Max is hinged on the left side. The magnet just holds it closed on the right.
Real pic here, not some representation.
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